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VPunk...You may not see it but you are a bit hostile yourself....
After living nearly sixty years with the church at the center of my being and seeing two of my three children and three fourths of my grandchildren so wrapped up in superstitious nonsense that they lean away from me...I'm entitled.
VPunk...You may not see it but you are a bit hostile yourself....
Yeah, it's funny that the first two hostile and [passive-]aggressive posts in a thread about "aggressive" anti-theists came from religious people. There's a large double standard about what's aggressive when you're promoting religion or attacking non-believers compared to what's aggressive when you object to object to religion, it seems.
VPunk...You may not see it but you are a bit hostile yourself....
I was going to say the same thing, DaniMae. I don't think victorianpunk realizes it, but he broadcasts his own brand of fundamentalism in addition to really degenerating his claims when he considers - and announces - that everybody who disagrees with religion is full of angst, bitter, and hate.
I'm not angry, I'm not bitter, and I don't hate "God" (I can't hate something I don't believe exists, as is so often said on these forums and yet never gets through.) or even faith. Posts on forums make it difficult for users to convey emotion, even when there are emoticons available. Yet, VP, I think you've got a knack for tacking emotions to posts that simply aren't there because it better fits your agenda. Try reading some of the nonbelievers posts with a more neutral tone and stop attaching your own whine and preconceived notions to them and see if you can tell the difference. You might surprise yourself.
Yeah, it's funny that the first two hostile and [passive-]aggressive posts in a thread about "aggressive" anti-theists came from religious people. There's a large double standard about what's aggressive when you're promoting religion or attacking non-believers compared to what's aggressive when you object to object to religion, it seems.
I'm not hostile to atheists as a rule. On other forums some of the people I get along with best are atheists. Several of my favorite authors are atheists.
I'm just hostile to the small subset of atheists that seem intent on "de-conversion", ridiculing others, promoting cultural ignorance, or eradicating all religion. In the real world I rarely encounter atheists like that. Online I encounter them a bit more, but I've rarely encountered them as much as I have here.
Still maybe I don't always respond the right way. I remember one guy here who told me the Catholic Faith was the Hoe of Babylon prophesied in the Book of Revelation even though he knew I was Catholic. To my surprise I think he was sincerely confused that I would be insulted by that and wanted to be my friend. So possibly the snark and childish insults are really meant as more benign than I'm thinking. Or I'm overreacting to them.
I've rarely encountered them as much as I have here.
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I have been ostracized and banned for as much as 90 days for voicing my opinion at the COMCAST forums. They have a policy which states that religious discussion is not permitted. If one examines the day to day activites there what it translates to is an anti secularist policy. They carry on prayer meetings for everything from terminal cancer to the extrication of a rectal boil but if anyone dares to speak up...down they go.
I've told them that as soon as this area gets DSL they can write me off. It's obvious that the person in charge of those forums is living at the foot of the cross...or thinks they do.
I am married to a fundamentalist from a long line of fundamentalists..I went along with fundamentalism for years and years in order to keep the family together for the children and grandchildren's sake..He never "allowed" me to go to college, because my place was to raise the children take care of the home and allow him to do as he pleased because he was the "head" of the household..
Had it not been for my mother and her liberal approach to religions and her tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs, I imagine I would have grown to reject the wrathful, fearful God who demanded love and obedience "Or else".
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Instead I finally gathered the courage , the faith and with the help of a loving God, stood my ground and even though H still thinks I am bound to the burning hell he is so fearful of, I have found total peace in a personal relationship with God that allows me to be a kinder, more tolerant person for all religions, faiths and leave the judgements to God..
These days I do not attend a "church" because it would cause so much tension in the family..I am free from the religions of man and now just call myself a believer and find no joy, peace or any burden to preach , pound or threaten anyone into my beliefs, because I think God will give his Spirit to those who desire to know Him and to accept His Son whom he sent to show the world He was not the God of the OT but was a God of love and compassion who does not test, threaten or is the cause of bad things that happen to us..
JMHO without any attempt to gather any followers in order to validate my beliefs
No, actually it is probably the way you were programed. Some of us have managed to shake off, or overcome our our programming, and sadly some have not.
If you had bothered to read my post, you would see that I was not "programmed". My father, as I said, was a critic of religion and was, essentially, a deists. He encouraged me to look into thinks myself and make my own conclusions...how is that "conditioning" I do not know...
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It takes logic and critical thinking, and that seems to be very difficult for some, although as a logical thinker I have no idea why that is. Mythology, magic and the supernatural are not logical or reasonable concepts.
Actually, now that I think about it, I was brainwashed in schools, or at least, they attempted to brainwash me. They wanted to brainwash me into thinking that the schools of thought which are Empricism is the only one worth thinking about, all while, most disturbing of all, never mentioning what Empiricism was and how it was not the only school of philosophy on Earth. Later, in college, I discovered Existentialism and Idealism, and started studying philosophy and realized that all of that Empricism rubbish was just one philosophical school of thought amongst many.
Indeed, it was the science teachers I had who were the once attempting to brainwash me into the religion of "logic" and "empiricism".
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The hatred you perceive is all in your illogical perception of what others think...Your thinking is poisoned by your beliefs. Atheists do not hate God or your faith in myths. They just think that your faith and belief are mistaken.
Okay then, please look at so many posters who say things like "Xtians" and all kinds of immature comments, then get back to me. I never mentioned Atheists in my message and am not talking about Atheists, I am talking about Anti-theists. There is a big difference.
From what I can tell by studies and behaviors I see here a certain number of people have difficulty with concepts like allegory or metaphor. They fail to see patterns even when they exist and tend to be literal minded.
I completely agree with you. Arguing with people who say things like "the bible isn't true! look at the story of Noah!" and I explain how it is really a metaphor...and then they turn around and say, like a broken record, "the bible isn't true! look at the story of Noah!" is frustrating to say the least. Some people just cannot get through their heads that not everyone takes everything literally...
That is one of the many things anti-theists and fundies have in common: neither can fathom that there is a way of looking at things aside from a literalists prospective.
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So anyway possibly they are not really angry or hateful from their perspective. They might be legitimately confused. Confusion can cause frustration and irritability. (For example jigsaw puzzles frustrate me and I would likely grow annoyed trying one. Possibly they react to God in a similar fashion) I have trouble believing anyone could honestly be as confused as they claim, but the mind can do all kinds of things so maybe I am too quick to dismiss the possibility.
I like the jigsaw analogy. It makes sense, and it is something I see allot of people display.
Being Catholic in the Bible Belt in the early 1980s wasn't much better. I was born in the land of Tony Alamo so I can sympathize with some of this. Still some of the hostility strikes me as fairly generalized to all theists, even ones who aren't conventionally religious. (If someone actually did tell me belief in a magical fairy was helpful to them I don't think I'd flip out about it the way some here do to any mention of God)
I agree, some seem to be unnecessarily hostile/bitter. I try not to be like that, because I was once a Christian fundamentalist myself, so I can relate to both.
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Not only that, but he can't make up his mind just what he's hostile about!
is frustrating to say the least. Some people just cannot get through their heads that not everyone takes everything literally...
