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"torturing babies with jumper cables is fun".
An invented situation.
Try applying god given morals to real life situations, about things that are currently happening.
Try out your idea of what is right or wrong from a christian viewpoint.
No, that is where your assumptions are challenged.
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If there is no God, we all create our own morality
Agreed.
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and have no basis in which to tell someone what is right and what is wrong.
Disagreed. Of course we have a basis. If we do not have a basis we cannot create our morality. And since atheists are not running around eating babies, it is obvious from the evidence that atheists do indeed create a morality, and therefore must have a basis for it.
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If I decided that torturing babies with jumper cables is fun, on what logical basis can you deny me that?
It is n the interests of preserving the survivability of humanity to discourage the torture of children, as once such torture is condoned, it will be applied to others and lesson the value of individuals, including oneself.
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There is no God, I make my own morality.
Your morality is still subject to judgment by your peers, and should your morality prove a threat to their well-being, it will be rectified.
Everything you brought could have a thread of its own. I don't want to veer off course here so if you would like to discuss those points in greater detail I would be happy to in another thread. The point here is about atheism. Please refute what I brought up and keep the conversation respectful.
I'm not being a typical dogmatic Christian, I am merely pointing out what is logical that those the hold to atheism cannot deny.
My reply is perfectly on topic.
If you have no answers to my comments, just admit it.
And you attempt to equate logic with religion. The two are like water and oil and cannot mix.
Logic, when introduced into religion, destroys religion utterly.
Precisely. So again you say that if my views are off, they ar subject to the judgement of my peers and will be rectified. Why? You just stated that the highest standard is self. So if I believe something is right, on what authority do you have to tell me I am wrong?
Now see, you are making assumptions about me. I did not make any assumptions, I started philosophical facts that no atheist can logically deny.
Bull crap. Your assumptions are not logical at all, and not supported by any evidence.
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I grew up an atheist, in a depraved home, my mother was murdered was I was 8, i was abused in every way and found God at the age of 20. It has been 10 years now.
Bully for you. You are weak-willed enough that you need someone else to tell you how to act, what to think, and what is right and wrong. I don't. I can figure those things out for myself, because I use critical thinking and reasoning.
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Why are you assuming you are superior to those who believe in God?
Why do YOU think YOU are superior, when you have no facts to back up your claims. I can statistically show that atheists typically commit fewer crimes than Christians, and in general have higher intelligence and a higher level of education than Christians.
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If you are an atheist than you must accept that each person finds their own meaning and if someone finds meaning in the person of Jesus Christ, why are they wrong?
I don't care what dogma you subscribe to. That's not the issue here. The issue is you came in here and posted about how the life of an atheist is worthless, meaningless, et cetera. That is what I have an issue with. Believe in purple flying elephants for all I care, just don't try to tell ME that I have to believe in them to in order to have a meaningful life.
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If there is no God, there is no right and wrong.
That's patently incorrect, but if you believe that, then you are just an animal wearing a leash, only doing what you do because you think the trainer will beat you otherwise. Completely and utterly ignorant.
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You resort to ad hominum attacks instead of cordial discourse.
Calling my life meaningless, worthless, hopeless, and immoral when you haven't clue one about how an atheist thinks and lives is an attack. Look for the beam in your own eye, cupcake.
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more law-abiding? polls show that an overwhelming majority of people in the U.S. and the world believe in God. So where do your "statistics" come from?
Google USA prison population by religion. Then Google religious statistics for the USA. You will clearly see that even though atheists make up between 8-16% of the US population, they comprise only about 0.2% of the prison population. Now look at the Christian statistics. About 76% of the USA population are Christian...and about 84% of the prison population is Christian.
Gosh, that's pretty telling, isn't it?
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Do not spout nonsense from Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens about atrocities in the name of religion for there are equal if not more atrocities in the names of other things.
Oh please. I've never quoted any of them, I dare you to find any post of mine that does. Go on, find one. I won't hold my breath.
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Hitler was a former Christian who abandoned his faith, became an atheist and killed 6 million people to create a better breed. He got his ideas from reading Charles Darwin.
You need to learn some history. Hitler was a devout Catholic. Go read Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches and personal letters. They're absolutely FILLED with religious rhetoric.
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Let's have respectful discussion on the topic brought up and not seek to demean anyone.
Oh wait...you mean you get to come in here and call my life worthless and meaningless and hopeless without even knowing me or how I think, yet when I soundly and utterly rebut you and send you packing, it now becomes a whine of "pleeeezzzze let's not demean anyone!"
Precisely. So again you say that if my views are off, they ar subject to the judgement of my peers and will be rectified. Why? You just stated that the highest standard is self. So if I believe something is right, on what authority do you have to tell me I am wrong?
Why?
Because just as you own your self. They own their selves. As you have the right to defend your self. They have the right to defend their selves.
As you present a threat to their selves. Your self will be threatened.
My authority over you comes solely from the defense of my property, namely me. Your authority over me comes solely from any aggression you exhibit towards my property. If you do not exhibit any aggression, then you can have any additional morality you want. But we both share the same objective morality that we own our selves and have the right to defend our property from aggression.
This is more, of course. But I'll let you take the time to digest this before we move into more difficult concepts such as shared risks and imminent threats.
On what basis can someone be the moral authority over another? rectified to what? To whose sense of right/wrong?
What comprises morality is completly dependant on the social and/or religious community one finds themselves within. Torturing babies with jumper cables, to use one of your examples, is against US "morality" as it harms the child. However, what the Spartans did to their boys in training would constitute what we consider immoral, but was perfectly eccepted within Spartan society.
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Originally Posted by lkingpinl
There are plenty of answers and those have been debated for centuries but as I said, those are topics in and of themself and would get off topic.
Again, my responses are perfectly on topic. You posite the question "Can we live without god". You have yet to prove 1. there is a god, 2. prove that he is a creator deity, and 3. responsible for anyone BUT Christians.
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