What Are The Best Examples Of Prophecies From The Bible That Have Come True? (Jehovah, suicide)
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Another thing I've been thinking of...of the handful of prophecies in this thread that have some merit - why the fascination with this one relatively geographically small part of the world? It almost like the God of the Bible forgot about the other 95% of the planet and the humans he supposedly created to focus on this one small area....that bothers me. It seems to me the likely explanation for that is the people (mortal men) who wrote & edited these so called Prophecies wrote about what they knew about which was Middle Eastern Centric. A Prophesy about Gunpowder being invented by the Chinese in a coming age for example would have been a good one for God to throw in there. This region specfic focus strikes me as fishy... Why does he need a special "Chosen People" ? Why aren't we all equally his "Chosen People"? The answer for me is either because of the region all these fariy tale stories came from or that the Bible God is real and for some reason a Rascist. Either way it makes me want to shy away.
Only a blind man would say the Jewish people are not returning to Israel and Jerusalem from a world wide exile. Only a blind man would say this return has not upset many nations around the world. And only a blind man could deny that most Jews would love to see their third temple rebuilt. I keep citing Israel, becuase of your blindness, and your obvious denial of the facts. And I have not ignored anything, the prophecies will all be fulfilled at the right time.
It doesn't matter if it's 64% or 99% of Israelis who want a temple built it isn't built and therefore the prophecy has not been fulfilled..... and unless you can persuade the Muslims to pull down their mosque and persuade modern day Israelis to revert to sacrificing again...it isn't going to be fulfilled. All parts of the prophecy must come to pass. Until they do, the prophecy is not fulfilled and your continuous blathering about it happening 'in the future' is about as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike.
You make a big deal of the numbering system and how the christians mucked it up. Very well, if this passage
30In that night Belshazzar the Chaldean King was slain. 31(or) Chapter 6 31And Darius the Mede received the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old. 1It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom a hundred and twenty satraps, who should be throughout the whole kingdom..
is not saying that Darius (the first) is not connected with the events of that date, whether recieving Babylon of the whole empire (neither of which is true) what, in you view is it saying?
The division of the texts is all important. Without it, there's no way to understand them. The christian translators had an agenda and often merged sections and paragraphs with other sections and paragraphs to support their preconceived ideas.
The Hebrews used a set of symbols to set apart clauses, sections, paragraphs and what we would think of as chapters.
If you look at Codex Leningradis or Codex Aleppo, it is painfully obvious that the end of Daniel 5 is Daniel 5:30. The christian translators mucked it up. Daniel 5:31 in their scheme is an entire new set of ideas/thoughts in Hebrew texts. It would be like reading one article in a newspaper or magazine and then reading another article.
Article 5:30....and Williams was arrested in his home by police without incident.
Article 5:31 (6:1) Funding was approved for construction on I-35 beginning in 2012....
What's the connection between the two articles? There is no connection and there doesn't have to be. Those events occurred/will occur within a certain time span, but there's no causal connection. The arrest did not lead to funding and funding wasn't granted because of the arrest.
The whole scheme of Daniel is very important, and within the scheme, the way the christians FUBAR'd the text just doesn't fit:
Daniel 1: Jehoiakim is judged [he was a Hebrew king]
Daniel 2: Four empires are judged [from Nebuchadnezzar’s vision]
Daniel 3: Daniel is saved
Daniel 4: Nebuchadnezzar is judged
Daniel 5: Belshazzar is judged
Daniel 6: Daniel is saved
Daniel 7: Four empires are judged [from Daniel’s vision]
Daniel 8: Medo-Persia and Macedonia are judged
Daniel 9: Hasmonean kings are judged
Daniel 10-12: Expanded version of Daniel 8 [Persia and Macedonia are judged]
There is absolutely no doubt that the theme of Daniel is judgment of pompous over-bearing rulers and haughty kingdoms.
Perhaps Campbell can enlighten everyone and explain how Jesus or his "kingdom" is pompous and haughty.
Anyway what I demonstrated here is the correct way to study the bible. The christian way, reading a few lines and then Rah! Rah! Huzzah! Huzzah! Go Yahweh! Go Yahweh! Go Yahweh! Go Team Jesus! is not bible study, it's classic cult brain-washing and indoctrination.
You mentioned the texts might have been altered, well, in the scheme of Daniel, which texts would that be?
Daniel 10, 11 and 12 certainly look suspicious. I'd be more impressed if those chapters were before Daniel 9.
And also we might ask, Why the expansion of the story of Persia and Macedonia? It seems you'd want to expand Daniel 9. Of course that's problematic because if as you say, it was written after the fact (pseudo-prophecy) then we can understand why Daniel 9 wasn't expanded because it hadn't happened yet.
If we go back to Genesis, to the story of the Deluge, what does Noah say in Genesis 6? Nothing.
Does Noah say anything in Genesis 7? No, and he says nothing in Genesis 8. Noah is silent all through Genesis 6-9 to the very end of Genesis 9 when we get this:
Genesis 9:24 When Noah awoke from his drunken stupor he learned what his youngest son had done to him. 9:25 So he said,
“Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves he will be to his brothers.” 9:26 He also said, “Worthy of praise is the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem! 9:27 May God enlarge Japheth’s territory and numbers! May he live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave!” 9:28 After the flood Noah lived 350 years. 9:29 The entire lifetime of Noah was 950 years, and then he died.
So humanity is wiped out and the whole planet devastated and what words does Noah leave for posterity?
Curse be Canaan.
Obviously that part of the text was added centuries after the original was written as part of Hate Week against the Canaanites.
Yes, it's possible, even more than likely that someone writing Daniel 10-12 was writing current/recent history and also made some changes in the text, like referring to the Chaldeans etc.
Compare:
Exodus 10:8 Cush was the father of Nimrod; he began to be a valiant warrior on the earth. 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. (That is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord.”) 10:10 The primary regions of his kingdom were Babel, Erech, Akkad, and Calneh in the land of Shinar. 10:11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, 10:12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city Calah.
I Chronicles 1:8 The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 1:9 The sons of Cush: Seba, Havilah, Sabta, Raamah, and Sabteca. The sons of Raamah: Sheba and Dedan. 1:10 Cush was the father of Nimrod, who established himself as a mighty warrior on earth.
There is no evidence whatsoever showing Nubians were ever in Asia Minor, which damages the “historical integrity” of the bible. The bold text is a later insertion by the Hebrews, who were confused between Khushu and Kush.
The Khushu (Kassites or Cassites) lived in the area between the Tirgis River and the Zagros Mountains and were destroyed by the Gutians circa 2500 BCE. There's no way a Hebrew could ever have met a Khu****e.
The statement “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter…” is found repeatedly in Sumerian and Akkadian texts (but never in Egyptian texts). The statement, as it appears in dozens of Sumerian and Akkadian texts, reads “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before Enlil” (and those texts date to 4,500 BCE).
And that's an example of where scribes writing the Hebrew texts made changes to reflect whatever current socio-political situation or in this particular case, it could have been an orthographic error since backward 'c' and backward 'c' with a dot represent the kh and k sounds.
The division of the texts is all important. Without it, there's no way to understand them. The christian translators had an agenda and often merged sections and paragraphs with other sections and paragraphs to support their preconceived ideas.
The Hebrews used a set of symbols to set apart clauses, sections, paragraphs and what we would think of as chapters.
If you look at Codex Leningradis or Codex Aleppo, it is painfully obvious that the end of Daniel 5 is Daniel 5:30. The christian translators mucked it up. Daniel 5:31 in their scheme is an entire new set of ideas/thoughts in Hebrew texts. It would be like reading one article in a newspaper or magazine and then reading another article.
Article 5:30....and Williams was arrested in his home by police without incident.
Article 5:31 (6:1) Funding was approved for construction on I-35 beginning in 2012....
What's the connection between the two articles? There is no connection and there doesn't have to be. Those events occurred/will occur within a certain time span, but there's no causal connection. The arrest did not lead to funding and funding wasn't granted because of the arrest.
The whole scheme of Daniel is very important, and within the scheme, the way the christians FUBAR'd the text just doesn't fit:
Daniel 1: Jehoiakim is judged [he was a Hebrew king]
Daniel 2: Four empires are judged [from Nebuchadnezzar’s vision]
Daniel 3: Daniel is saved
Daniel 4: Nebuchadnezzar is judged
Daniel 5: Belshazzar is judged
Daniel 6: Daniel is saved
Daniel 7: Four empires are judged [from Daniel’s vision]
Daniel 8: Medo-Persia and Macedonia are judged
Daniel 9: Hasmonean kings are judged
Daniel 10-12: Expanded version of Daniel 8 [Persia and Macedonia are judged]
There is absolutely no doubt that the theme of Daniel is judgment of pompous over-bearing rulers and haughty kingdoms.
Perhaps Campbell can enlighten everyone and explain how Jesus or his "kingdom" is pompous and haughty.
Anyway what I demonstrated here is the correct way to study the bible. The christian way, reading a few lines and then Rah! Rah! Huzzah! Huzzah! Go Yahweh! Go Yahweh! Go Yahweh! Go Team Jesus! is not bible study, it's classic cult brain-washing and indoctrination.
You mentioned the texts might have been altered, well, in the scheme of Daniel, which texts would that be?
Daniel 10, 11 and 12 certainly look suspicious. I'd be more impressed if those chapters were before Daniel 9.
And also we might ask, Why the expansion of the story of Persia and Macedonia? It seems you'd want to expand Daniel 9. Of course that's problematic because if as you say, it was written after the fact (pseudo-prophecy) then we can understand why Daniel 9 wasn't expanded because it hadn't happened yet.
If we go back to Genesis, to the story of the Deluge, what does Noah say in Genesis 6? Nothing.
Does Noah say anything in Genesis 7? No, and he says nothing in Genesis 8. Noah is silent all through Genesis 6-9 to the very end of Genesis 9 when we get this:
Genesis 9:24 When Noah awoke from his drunken stupor he learned what his youngest son had done to him. 9:25 So he said,
“Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves he will be to his brothers.” 9:26 He also said, “Worthy of praise is the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem! 9:27 May God enlarge Japheth’s territory and numbers! May he live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave!” 9:28 After the flood Noah lived 350 years. 9:29 The entire lifetime of Noah was 950 years, and then he died.
So humanity is wiped out and the whole planet devastated and what words does Noah leave for posterity?
Curse be Canaan.
Obviously that part of the text was added centuries after the original was written as part of Hate Week against the Canaanites.
Yes, it's possible, even more than likely that someone writing Daniel 10-12 was writing current/recent history and also made some changes in the text, like referring to the Chaldeans etc.
Compare:
Exodus 10:8 Cush was the father of Nimrod; he began to be a valiant warrior on the earth. 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord. (That is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord.”) 10:10 The primary regions of his kingdom were Babel, Erech, Akkad, and Calneh in the land of Shinar. 10:11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, Calah, 10:12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and the great city Calah.
I Chronicles 1:8 The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 1:9 The sons of Cush: Seba, Havilah, Sabta, Raamah, and Sabteca. The sons of Raamah: Sheba and Dedan. 1:10 Cush was the father of Nimrod, who established himself as a mighty warrior on earth.
There is no evidence whatsoever showing Nubians were ever in Asia Minor, which damages the “historical integrity” of the bible. The bold text is a later insertion by the Hebrews, who were confused between Khushu and Kush.
The Khushu (Kassites or Cassites) lived in the area between the Tirgis River and the Zagros Mountains and were destroyed by the Gutians circa 2500 BCE. There's no way a Hebrew could ever have met a Khu****e.
The statement “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter…” is found repeatedly in Sumerian and Akkadian texts (but never in Egyptian texts). The statement, as it appears in dozens of Sumerian and Akkadian texts, reads “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before Enlil” (and those texts date to 4,500 BCE).
And that's an example of where scribes writing the Hebrew texts made changes to reflect whatever current socio-political situation or in this particular case, it could have been an orthographic error since backward 'c' and backward 'c' with a dot represent the kh and k sounds.
This is of no help whatsoever. How does this alter Daniel apparently saying
(a) that Nebuchadnezzar was Belshazzar's father when he was the grandfather,
(b) regarding Belshazzar (co -ruler at best) as the only royal piece on the board when Nabonidus was resisting the Persians and surrendered to Cyrus' governor
(c) nothing about Cyrus as conquering the Babylonian kingdom but Darius is named as the one getting the kingdom and appointing satraps and governors?
Is your point that Daniel was only appointed a prefect of satraps in the reign of Darius 1?
How does it alter the close match of the supposed prophecy with the 2nd c history up to the maccabean revolt?
What does it change about the prophecy of the image apparently coming down to the Roman times (and no later, so Daniel can no way relate to modern times) but actually fits the Hellenistic times, if Daniel regarded Media as a separate kingdom preceding the Persian, which is the only reason to suppose that is what he did? Which would again make his 500BC history a bit shaky.
I don't deny that Daniel might have been mucked about in the way you say but again, if it does not say that Beshazzar was killed, Darius got the kingdom and then appointed Satraps with daniel one of the three supervisors what way, do your suggest, it should be read? I cannot buy it it that it is just a set of unrelated news reports which should not be read in context. The whole polemic thrust of Daniel is clear and unified. It is prophecy that God would intervene to save his people at a later date as he intervened to punish Babylonia.
The only point at issue is whether the prophecy is to be related to 167 BC, c3o AD or some vague time in the present.
P.s "You mentioned the texts might have been altered, well, in the scheme of Daniel, which texts would that be?"
Did I? I don't recall that. My view is that Daniel has not been altered appreciably since it was written - in the 2nd c BC.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-07-2010 at 08:39 AM..
Reason: Belshazzar, not daniel..sorry, the ol' dyslexia..
It doesn't matter if it's 64% or 99% of Israelis who want a temple built it isn't built and therefore the prophecy has not been fulfilled..... and unless you can persuade the Muslims to pull down their mosque and persuade modern day Israelis to revert to sacrificing again...it isn't going to be fulfilled. All parts of the prophecy must come to pass. Until they do, the prophecy is not fulfilled and your continuous blathering about it happening 'in the future' is about as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Yes, you made this point before. C34's prophecy has not apparently come to pass. The best that can be said is that the present archway is blocked up as per the prophecy..sorta.
Only a blind man would say the Jewish people are not returning to Israel and Jerusalem from a world wide exile. Only a blind man would say this return has not upset many nations around the world.
Frankly, c34, most nations around the world would love to have their Jewish population return to Israel. This is not an anti-semitic commentary, but a realistic one relating to ongoing real or perceived cultural and fiscal issues many governments imagine. (not the US or Canadian ones, for which the Jewish population can be thankful). Nonetheless, many others here have repeatedly proven your wild-a$$ imaginings to be wrong: the ex-Israel population far exceeds the in-Israel population.
Jews in New York City, for instance, don't begin to see themselves as being "in exile". what, they want to return from NYC and it's deli's to that sand hill with folks trying to kill them nonstop? What ARE you smoking there, c34?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
Campbell, please, please try to understand. before all our heads explode. The Text of Ezekiel makes it clear that the shut gate is part of temple sanctuary, not the gate of the outer wall which Ezekiel describes as being separated from the holy place and profane area (the court of the gentiles in Herod's temple) The present Golden gate is of course built on top of herod's Solomons' porch (in the outer wall), but neither the golden gate nor the foundations of Herod's Solomon's porch is Ezekiel's east gate and neither is that arch underneath - whatever it is.
Your attempt to pull the fallacy of numbers is laughable. I recall we looked at your 'Jews believe it' claim and that fell so flat you had to rethink your entire prophecy to fit. I truly doubt that any muslims really believe that a returning Jesus is going to unblock the Golden gate and sit down for croissants with the Lord.
Thanks so much for a good chuckle.
Makes for humorous light reading, that's for sure. Don't try to convince this poster; he defines intransigence. but for the good of others, he presents a walking, talking case for how fundamentalist believers will never give in, even when hit in the face with the cold dead fish....
Now this poster has a good point which c34 will absolutely ignore, for reasons already noted....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wintertao
Another thing I've been thinking of...of the handful of prophecies in this thread that have some merit - why the fascination with this one relatively geographically small part of the world? It almost like the God of the Bible forgot about the other 95% of the planet and the humans he supposedly created to focus on this one small area....that bothers me.
It seems to me the likely explanation for that is the people (mortal men) who wrote & edited these so called Prophecies wrote about what they knew about which was Middle Eastern Centric.
A Prophesy about Gunpowder being invented by the Chinese in a coming age for example would have been a good one for God to throw in there. This region specific focus strikes me as fishy... Why does he need a special "Chosen People" ? Why aren't we all equally his "Chosen People"? The answer for me is either because of the region all these fairy tale stories came from or that the Bible God is real and for some reason a Racist.
Either way it makes me want to shy away.
Excellent point, wintertao! One of my ongoing but always ignored points as well: why are there no contemporaneous accounts of the Great Global Flood by the Chinese? Or of any soul-saving fantastic miracles? Why did God's biblical prophecies not account for known astronomical events that the far more advanced Chinese philosophers documented, but the sand desert goatherds didn't bother to note by simply looking up?
Why were the Chinese and Japanese completely unaware of this great and wonderful God? Not so much as a hint! Why does Chinese history precede that of the Middle East by at least 3000 years, thus disproving the Creation fairytale completely? And why did traveling priests of the RC Church deem it so very important to proselytize, at the point of a spear or musket, eradicating the equally valid belief systems of others? The answer is obvious when you are actively empire building.... (See: Ghengis Khan for a handbook....)
Why won't modern Christians therefore acknowledge that their entire belief system is based on a fantasy and a highly suspect and easily disproven fable? Oh, and with no proven, unambiguous prophecies yet demonstrated?
Point is, a large part of of the world was advancing and culturally evolving while a small group of local goatherders were crowing skyward and authoring fantastic but non-existent prophecies. Fortunately for their spirituality, both the Chinese and the Japanese were far more technically advanced at ANY point in time (even today) than the ME, which has remained baked into its own intransigent ancient, ignorance-based mental hard-cake, unable to see beyond the vast improbabilities of it's chosen dogma.
Why won't modern Christians therefore acknowledge that their entire belief system is based on a fantasy and a highly suspect and easily disproven fable? Oh, and with no proven, unambiguous prophecies yet demonstrated?
In the case of brother Campbell and those of his ilk, it is because if they did, their whole world, their 'reason for being' would collapse around their ears. They just couldn't handle it, couldn't go on living with the thought that there was no magical place to go to after death. It would frighten the crap out of them.
So what's behind this gate that they need to keep it sealed, El Toro figurines?
When Christ returns He will build the temple of God on the temple mount. The East Gate leads to the temple mount. And the prophecy states the Porch Gate would be sealed up, and remain so until the Prince comes. And that is why we see a sealed Porch Gate today.
Frankly, c34, most nations around the world would love to have their Jewish population return to Israel. This is not an anti-semitic commentary, but a realistic one relating to ongoing real or perceived cultural and fiscal issues many governments imagine. (not the US or Canadian ones, for which the Jewish population can be thankful). Nonetheless, many others here have repeatedly proven your wild-a$$ imaginings to be wrong: the ex-Israel population far exceeds the in-Israel population.
Jews in New York City, for instance, don't begin to see themselves as being "in exile". what, they want to return from NYC and it's deli's to that sand hill with folks trying to kill them nonstop? What ARE you smoking there, c34?
Makes for humorous light reading, that's for sure. Don't try to convince this poster; he defines intransigence. but for the good of others, he presents a walking, talking case for how fundamentalist believers will never give in, even when hit in the face with the cold dead fish....
Now this poster has a good point which c34 will absolutely ignore, for reasons already noted....
Excellent point, wintertao! One of my ongoing but always ignored points as well: why are there no contemporaneous accounts of the Great Global Flood by the Chinese? Or of any soul-saving fantastic miracles? Why did God's biblical prophecies not account for known astronomical events that the far more advanced Chinese philosophers documented, but the sand desert goatherds didn't bother to note by simply looking up?
Why were the Chinese and Japanese completely unaware of this great and wonderful God? Not so much as a hint! Why does Chinese history precede that of the Middle East by at least 3000 years, thus disproving the Creation fairytale completely? And why did traveling priests of the RC Church deem it so very important to proselytize, at the point of a spear or musket, eradicating the equally valid belief systems of others? The answer is obvious when you are actively empire building.... (See: Ghengis Khan for a handbook....)
Why won't modern Christians therefore acknowledge that their entire belief system is based on a fantasy and a highly suspect and easily disproven fable? Oh, and with no proven, unambiguous prophecies yet demonstrated?
Point is, a large part of of the world was advancing and culturally evolving while a small group of local goatherders were crowing skyward and authoring fantastic but non-existent prophecies. Fortunately for their spirituality, both the Chinese and the Japanese were far more technically advanced at ANY point in time (even today) than the ME, which has remained baked into its own intransigent ancient, ignorance-based mental hard-cake, unable to see beyond the vast improbabilities of it's chosen dogma.
Campbell34: your comments specific to the utter lack of supportive Asian accounts from a culture you know was highly advanced?
The day is coming when the Jews in United States along with the general population will be trying to leave the country. This exodus will last for a period of two years. And that is because America will be given two years before her destruction. The God of the Bible tells the Jews living in America to flee to Jerusalem before it's to late. The Jews of this time will not be worried about New York deli's.
Last edited by Campbell34; 11-08-2010 at 12:23 PM..
In the case of brother Campbell and those of his ilk, it is because if they did, their whole world, their 'reason for being' would collapse around their ears. They just couldn't handle it, couldn't go on living with the thought that there was no magical place to go to after death. It would frighten the crap out of them.
Oh Rafius, you know that those of your ilk stated that the Bible is a work of fiction. In the past those of your ilk stated that the Biblical Hittite nation was a Bible myth. Those of your ilk stated that King David was a Bible myth. Yet when historical discovery revealed that both the Hittites, and King David were real. How silent your ilk got. There was nothing magical about that reality. It was just a fact. And such facts only reveal how wrong so many have been about the Scriptures historical accounts. And they will continue to be wrong in the future, because they ignore their past mistakes.
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Written history: it's so danged inconvenient!
