A Tricky(er) One! (unpardonable, myth, Holy Spirit, punishment)
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I think before I can answer your question HopOnPop, you're gonna have to explain what you mean by "you are only slightly less of an atheist than I am".
I don't understand that phrase. Help me and I'll respond to your curiosity.
Sure. When it comes to all the thousands of gods and goddesses ever worshipped by mankind (perhaps its tens-of-thousands, I never counted), you have an equal sense of atheism in regards to them as I do. In fact, there is only one god, your God, that we differ on. So, from my perspective (and many atheists see it this way) you are almost as "atheist" as we atheists -- we merely go one god further than you do.
All will recognize/acknowledge God as being God,
be overwhelmed with emotion
fall weeping at his feet worshiping Him
unfortunately, his circumstances do not change.
On the outside chance he has an opportunity to address The King, what do you think he could/would say? What do you think could undo a lifetime of rejecting the very essence of what life is all about? What's your thoughts about this scenario?
It is my understanding that as long as we have breath, we can call upon the name of Jesus to be saved.
I do not see anything that could undo a lifetime of rejection after death.
Even on his deathbed, if he is truly repentant and he has a humble heart and he cries out to Jesus, he will be saved.
Well, if it were me in this scenario, here's what I would say:
"I'm surprised you would even see me after years of rejecting You. I guess even that is something I didn't know about you. I have no defense. I also have no excuse, but I do have a reason. Here it is: I was born with a brain. I didn't ask to be; someone made me that way. Events were placed in my path that lead me to question and wonder. I didn't ask for those events; they happened to me. I tried to reason it all through logic; reasoning was given to me, not asked for, and logic is a quality of my being human, which someone else created me as.
I was set down in a helpless body in a certain place and certain time by someone else, not by my own motivation and not even with my input first. I was given into the hands of a culture that had more questions than answers and which prided itself on logic, saying belief was silly. This was by someone else's grand design, for His purposes and His greater plan--not mine. A child is helpless and imprints itself onto its surrounding society as a mere matter of survival. This is a quality of being homo sapiens.
I searched around and realized something: if Christianity were correct and I followed it, well then, faboulous; no more worries. But what if I were worshipping the *wrong* way? Then I'd be offending some other god. It wasn't simply a case of, 'Well, just believe, because if you're wrong, the worst that will happen is you'll just go blank at death and feel no more pain anyway." But given the society I was immersed in, with many, many religions and beliefs, that wasn't the worst that could happen...if I were worshipping the wrong person.
I prayed to You, hundreds of times, thousands of times. I heard that 'sometimes the answer is no'. Unfortunately, for me the answer was basically *always* no. I was chasing you, Lord. I practically begged You to accept me--I started to feel like I was a stalker and maybe that was why You were rejecting me...because I tried too hard, and got too caught up in dogma...Christian dogma, that being the majority religion of the time and therefore the 'safest' one I was able to pick out amid the confusing mish-mosh around me.
So I laid off a little. Relaxed the dogma, relaxed the 'you have to believe this or that,' and then just gave it up to agnosticism. That left a tiny window--a window for You to enter if only You had chosen. Even though you rejected me so many times, I still couldn't give up hope entirely.
Christians see me as 'rejecting You my entire life' because in *their* view--well, apparently Yours, too, as I'm now belatedly discovering!--not accepting the whole kit and kaboodle of Christianity is rejection. Any other religion besides Christianity is a rejection; it's not just atheism or antithesim that are considered a rejection. They used the term 'rejection' as an indictment; a way of painting me to be cold, callous and, well, not worthy of You. Their idea of 'rejection' was questioning; not believing all the details. I didn't see it that way. But they did. And I guess so do You.
So now I'm going to hell, and that's bad. And I'm sorry You and I couldn't have been part of the same family eventually. And I'm sad to go to a dark and terrible place. It is my punishment on top of the punishment of having been born. That's Your will and I can't do a thing about it. I'm glad you gave me this time to speak. Eventually, I've heard, You will then allow me and my other hell-roommates to just die literally; to no longer be in hell, no longer be anywhere. Maybe that's part of Your mercy too. Good-bye. I am sorry but I can not change things and I can't make a last-minute switcheroo on faith here; that's too transparent. I lived my life completely unwilling to do a 'cover my *ss' scenario where I 'just believed...just in case'. You would have preferred that to the way I did actually live my life. So You and I would not have gotten along anyway. I guess I must be going. There is nothing more I can say."
All will recognize/acknowledge God as being God,
be overwhelmed with emotion
fall weeping at his feet worshiping Him
unfortunately, his circumstances do not change.
I thought so too, that if this scenario were accurate, then no matter what, God couldn't change the penalty, because it's the rule. He couldn't change it even if he wanted to and even if he were moved by words and crying, because it's the rule and anyone who has been exposed to the NT pretty much knows this in advance. He'd have to still say "no".
Sadly he won't get that chance, once we're dead, no more chances. There is nothing that can be done about a lifetime of rejecting Christ when our life if over. We can never be "good enough". Only the blood of Jesus can take away our sins.
key word is dead...
I'd have to agree, ILNC. Up until the last breath, a person can be saved, but after, it's too late.
Yep, not one of us is ever good enough, except through Jesus and His blood. Because if we believe in Him, then He abides in us and us in Him. That's how The Father sees Jesus in us. And that's how we make it "in".
GOsh, I just got a picture of God having to turn away one of His children. Talk about rip your heart out. He is a loving Father, but as much as He is gentle and good, He is Just. And, His word is His Word and He will not go back on it. What a heart-wrenching job our Daddy has, in dealing with all of us children. (Seriously, my heart aches for what He must go through.)
Okay, okay... I said it was too much for me. But, I read ILNC's post and had to support the girl and back her up!
But, Alpha, or anyone else, if your view differs, would you be kind and provide scripturals references? My curiousity has been peeked
I'm interested, mrsengle, is this any particular religion that you follow or is this just your opinion? I ask because I don't know all the theology behind all religions, and wondered if this is a common world view or a common mrsengle's world view.
Well....I dunno! I'm sure there are others who see it that way!
I consider myself Christian, but I don't think there is such a place as hell, as it is described in the Bible.
I look at it like this: If I were God, I couldn't send that person to a lake of fire. For all eternity. So, multiply that by a billion, and I think you might come close to how God would approach him. If I were Jesus, I would defend the fact that I didn't die for nothing. If Jesus can forgive the ones who persecuted him and sent him to a terrible death, do you think God couldn't 'forgive' another human being?
I just think God loves us a whole lot more than we give him credit for. There is reading about God, studying God, worshipping God - and then there's experiencing God. I don't believe (and this is my world view ) that God is a being separate from us. We're like little gods, 'godding.'
This is very confusing to me since the Bible teaches us there is a place called hell
I believe in a hell, just not the 'lake of fire' kind.
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key word...
) that God is a being separate from us. We're like little gods, 'godding.'
