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I like what you said Irishmom. I think it CAN be both too. It IS a sticky wicket situation. For myself, I WOULD help people who needed help (within limits, of course), no questions asked, but we also have to hold the tension of balancing compassion with the fact that if the Bible does enjoin us to "obey the law of the land" except when it directly violates God's law. St. Paul in the book of Romans really addresses this issue pretty strongly-that we not be capricious about disobeying "the law of the land" because this is also not pleasing to God. (And yes, I know I violate that every time I speed to work.....)
Yes, I do believe it is wrong to turn down any poor based on legal status. Legal status is a man-made symbol. God's children are ALL legally His!
I work with illegals and legals who have immigrated to the US and when I hear some of their stories my heart breaks and I am humbled. If my children were starving and couldn't have access to schools I would be trying to find a way to a country that would give a better life to my children.
I have a very hard time with Christians who just happened to be born into the richest country in the world, give sanctimonious credence to their unwillingness to help the poor and downtrodden.
God COMMANDS that we help the poor. He talks about money and its usage over 2,000 times in the Bible. So it MUST be important!
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by jco
I want to discuss Christianity here, not the immigration issue. I just wanted to make that clear so that everyone knows why I posted this here.
This is an issue I greatly struggle with. My church is reaching out to a very poor Hispanic community near our city. I'd say that 90% of the adults in this community are illegal aliens. We give them a shopping cart full of food, clothes, and we've even paid for dental care for dozens of people who needed it.
The political side of me, for several reasons I don't care to talk about here, says that we shouldn't compromise with this issue. Then I think about Jesus and his compassion on the poor and the helpless. I think about his love for Jews and Gentiles. I think about the good Samaritan. I think about what He said about caring for widows, orphans, and the poor. I just don't see how I can turn away from all the hurting people I've seen, even if they are illegal immigrants.
It's pretty clear to me that if you're a Christian, you can't have a box that's for your Christian life, a box that's for your political life, etc. As I've heard it said, every role in your life should express your belief in Christ.
I still haven't figured this issue out. Do you believe, as Christians, that we're wrong to turn away from a downcast person, even if they're an illegal immigrant?
I agree that a conflict of emotions comes up when you might know these people are here illegally. And I also agree with Hate the Sin, Not the Sinner... that we Christians quote so often. Would anyone care to comment on whether this kindness would be shown to other persons who are breaking the law? What if a person was a thief, or child molester, or a druggie, yet perhaps was homeless or hungry? Would we still be so willing to show that kindness? Most of the time we don't even want to help those who have been released from jail/prison after they've paid their debt to society. If indeed we do Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner, shouldn't we try to help all those in need? Or are there limits?
I am unsure what sort of judgment(s) others in society have on ex-cons, but I know a couple of them (who screwed up pretty badly and spent years in prison) and for years now since, they have been on a great path in society. So I have actually seen a couple people turn their lives around to know that not everyone is a career criminal. People make mistakes. Would I help out ex-felons, absolutely, I have and would again. I figure it like this - if someone wants to take me for 'boo-boo da'fool,' I will not suffer the final consequences of it. I will not be the one who will have to run and hide from myself out of eventual shame and guilty conscience. None of us learn from all "good" experiences. We need the bad/ill experiences to grow and expand our horizons and our own spiritual growth. I will not judge or place limits on who I will help, I just know my own limits on what my own capabilities are in that aspect in helping/giving.
Not too long ago I was near the Phoenix Zoo driving back from a client's house and at the gas station there was a man going through the garbage cans in between the pumps who was clearly homeless and it was obvious by his jailhouse ink jobs on his neck, arms and knuckles that he was an ex-felon. While my gas pumped, I asked him if he was ok. He said to me that he was very thirsty and the gas station attendant gave him one small dixie cup of water but that was all that the attendant would give and told him that if he was not a paying customer he could not hang around inside. He looked at me and said that he was "really, really thirsty" and the water he was given was not enough to quench his thirst - he went into his shopping cart and showed me the cup. I almost fell over at the puny size of this cup. For those of you not familiar with AZ law, we have a law that you cannot deny someone who is in need of water to drink - so the attendant basically covered her behind legally by giving him the water to begin with, so it was out of being lawful and not good-hearted. And yes, the law is enforced with hefty fines to merchants if they deny.) I told him to hang on and I told him to walk in with me to the gas station. He did. I went and got him 4 of the largest waters that I could find in the cooler and he helped me bring them to the register. I then asked him if he was hungry and he said yes. I asked him if he came around this station often and he said yes. So bought him a $25 gift card for the gas station with the water. I had the cash in my pocket from what my client had just given me, so why not. This man was wearing female short overalls with a pink tshirt - evident that he pulled it out of someones garbage. The overalls were pretty tight on the guy and was pulling up into his groin. I own a couple cleaning services and in the back of my vehicle, I carry around a few extra pairs of extra scrub pants and scrub tops in a bag for myself and employees in case they rip or spill chemicals on them. I gave the man 2 pairs, one in burgundy and one in navy blue. Told him for when it gets too hot for the pants, he can cut them into shorts and to keep the other pair for the evenings for when its cooler out. I wished him well and I started on my way home.
I have not regretted it since and I have not regretted anything I have done for others, no matter their situation. I will continue to help those in need. Everyone has a story - each of us. There is only one "Judge," and I am not her.
I feel pretty passionately about this subject. Sorry so long.
I have to say I was so touched by your story! It made me feel so good! Thank you for doing that for that man! I just know that God will bless you for things like this and I'm sure He already has! I had a similar situation in Baltimore, MD when I was there for about a month working on a store project. A homeless man would come around the store I was working on, and I would help him too and my co-workers could not understand why I would take the time out to go talk with him. While everyone else wanted to stay away, I wanted to see if he was ok. If I ever see someone in need, I will give. I have much to be thankful for! *HUGS* LuLu
I want to discuss Christianity here, not the immigration issue. I just wanted to make that clear so that everyone knows why I posted this here.
This is an issue I greatly struggle with. My church is reaching out to a very poor Hispanic community near our city. I'd say that 90% of the adults in this community are illegal aliens. We give them a shopping cart full of food, clothes, and we've even paid for dental care for dozens of people who needed it.
The political side of me, for several reasons I don't care to talk about here, says that we shouldn't compromise with this issue. Then I think about Jesus and his compassion on the poor and the helpless. I think about his love for Jews and Gentiles. I think about the good Samaritan. I think about what He said about caring for widows, orphans, and the poor. I just don't see how I can turn away from all the hurting people I've seen, even if they are illegal immigrants.
It's pretty clear to me that if you're a Christian, you can't have a box that's for your Christian life, a box that's for your political life, etc. As I've heard it said, every role in your life should express your belief in Christ.
I still haven't figured this issue out. Do you believe, as Christians, that we're wrong to turn away from a downcast person, even if they're an illegal immigrant?
jco, thats a good post. I am on the same page. I dont think that what they are doing is right but they are still out brothers and sisters in christ. Thats got me thinking, thats why I love CD.
I have to say I was so touched by your story! It made me feel so good! Thank you for doing that for that man! I just know that God will bless you for things like this and I'm sure He already has! I had a similar situation in Baltimore, MD when I was there for about a month working on a store project. A homeless man would come around the store I was working on, and I would help him too and my co-workers could not understand why I would take the time out to go talk with him. While everyone else wanted to stay away, I wanted to see if he was ok. If I ever see someone in need, I will give. I have much to be thankful for! *HUGS* LuLu
Thanks, Lulu! The nice thing about giving is that even if you are not rich and give selflessly in what you are able, one will be plenty rich in character and in blessings. After all, I hear that we can't take it with us when we are gone.
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