About the question: Do Animals go to Heaven? (soul, Jerusalem, quote)
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I wonder how pets become a member of the family. I have had pets too - great danes, cats and fish. They're just pets. Just entertainment. They're nice to have. No way they are family members to me. I'm not gonna say I love my Dad, my mom, my wife, my kids and my dogs. There's gottabe a line somewhere between humans and animals.
What are the qualities that make you love the humans in your life, but not the pets in your life? If you can't love animals because, say, they lack the raw I.Q. of humans and are unable to converse verbally, then would you be able to love a human who is mentally retarded, or who suffers brain damage of one type or another? Did you love your kids when they were babies and lacked the capabilities to interact with you in the way that older kids and adults do? What's behind "There's gottabe a line somewhere between humans and animals"? I'm not trying to be confrontational, just probing for your reasoning. I've found that people either "get" animals, or they don't, and I'm equally baffled by those who don't (which includes a couple of my best friends, who can never articulate it beyond, "Well, they're just animals, and we're people.").
One of the last articles that Carl Sagan wrote before he died was a piece for Parade magazine saying that there are no capabilities that humans possess that haven't been observed in animals. It's a matter of degree, and of course the capabilities and degree vary from species to species, but I don't know of any case in which someone has claimed "Humans are the only species that can do X" where researchers haven't found evidence of it in at least some other species. Dolphins and elephants have been shown to have self-awareness (which is tested for by an animal recognizing that its reflection in a mirror belongs to the animal). Many animals create and use tools. Most communicate, with varying degrees of sophistication. The emotions present in humans have been observed in many animals. One of the last claims to be challenged was, "Humans are the only only species with an aesthetic appreciation." Sagan mentioned a study of a tribe of chimpanzees who climbed to the top of a hill every afternoon, sat down, watched the sun set, and climbed back down the hill. No explanation could be found other than that they liked watching the sun set. The NPR program Radiolab recently had a segment about a group of bonobos who were observed staring silently into a clear pool of water for several minutes, as if in some form of meditation (there were no fish in the pool), and another about a tribe of baboons that stopped fighting with other baboons (there was a reason for it -- long story), suggesting that the aggressiveness that was thought to be innate might in fact be learned.
My dog plays with me, displays affectionate behavior toward me, comes and lies next to me when I'm sick or worried about something, protected me once when we were attacked by another dog, and displays enough mischievous behavior to make him interesting. Why wouldn't I love him?
My views toward animals aren't influenced by religious beliefs. I don't believe that humans have souls and animals don't (I believe that whatever happens to us after death happens to them, too, and I don't pretend to know what that is), or that humans are "superior" to animals in a supernatural, God-given sense. On the other hand, I don't sentimentalize them, either; I have the sense not to try to cuddle up to a shark or a grizzly bear. I love animals in the general sense that I love humanity, because we all share this planet together, but just as there are individual humans whom I love to different degrees and in different ways, so, too, is it with individual animals.
If you want a deeper understanding, I recommend reading Ted Kerasote's book Merle's Door. It's the story of his relationship with a stray dog he found and kept. He describes the various types of intelligence he observed in his dog, and he also interweaves the history of how humans and dogs came to associate with each other, and various theories about dog psychology over the years. It's not your typical sentimental animal story that would appeal only to die-hard animal lovers. If you read that book and still can't understand how it's possible to love an animal, then I suspect you never will.
Why would all animals go to heaven, yet the majority of humans be destined for hell (narrow is the gate)? If god can arrange it for all animals to go to heaven, then it would be easy enough for him to allow all people to go too (if he truly wanted all to be saved). I can't help that I don't believe in god. If it were true that all dogs go to heaven, then I would be better off having been born a dog. At least dogs won't have to suffer eternally in hell just for not believing in a god. If god is omniscient and has foreknowledge of all who would go to hell before they are even born, why not just allow those people to be born as dogs? What's 15 years or so on earth as a dog compared to a lifetime in heaven, right?
Why would all animals go to heaven, yet the majority of humans be destined for hell (narrow is the gate)? If god can arrange it for all animals to go to heaven, then it would be easy enough for him to allow all people to go too (if he truly wanted all to be saved). I can't help that I don't believe in god. If it were true that all dogs go to heaven, then I would be better off having been born a dog. At least dogs won't have to suffer eternally in hell just for not believing in a god. If god is omniscient and has foreknowledge of all who would go to hell before they are even born, why not just allow those people to be born as dogs? What's 15 years or so on earth as a dog compared to a lifetime in heaven, right?
This is yet another reason why I don't believe in the standard concept of heaven/hell. God supposedly gave humans the "gift" of choice in whether we believe in him. Those who choose not to (actually, I don't think belief is a choice) are destined for everlasting torment. Animals weren't given the gift of choice, so how can they be judged? If you're incapable of knowing right from wrong, how can you be either rewarded or punished? A truly benevolent God would reward everyone with heaven, because he supposedly made us who were are.
A truly benevolent God would reward everyone with heaven, because he supposedly made us who were are.
Bravo!
After all, if the God you worship created you as a sinner, and you sin, you are living up to the standards he set for you, doing what you were born to do.
Who said the "majority" of humans are going to hell?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood
Why would all animals go to heaven, yet the majority of humans be destined for hell (narrow is the gate)? If god can arrange it for all animals to go to heaven, then it would be easy enough for him to allow all people to go too (if he truly wanted all to be saved). I can't help that I don't believe in god. ...
Jesus Christ, in whom I trust, never said the majority of people go to hell. He said, "Many..." and in my experience of over 40 years of counselling with all types of people, it's my opinion that some people actually don't wish to go to heaven. Believe it or not. I almost think they'd be uncomfortable there.
I believe that whatever conscience we have on this side, we take with us to the other side. After all, your conscience isn't hardware, it's software.
After nearly 40 years of studying the Bible intensively, I am also convinced that hell isn't just a place of fire, but there are different levels just as the Bible describes different levels in heaven. Same as on this planet. There are people who are very sane and stable and people who are miserable and off their rocker.
And as to whether there is a God, I know that my intellect didn't create itself nor did this gorgeous, intricate planet. If you just poke around a bit into the nature of DNA, you will realize that DNA operates purely on information. How did that information get installed into it? How does a computer get information installed?
Order doesn't come from chaos, but from an intelligent creator who isn't a show off (unless you look at gorgeous sunsets from time to time or see the Grand Canyon), but He pretty much just whispers His truth to you.
At the tender age of 20, I quit wondering if He existed because someone suggested that I ask Him. So I did and I began an intensive search and I ended up a very happy, peaceful Christian.
No, most people don't go to hell, but a lot do and it's always your choice.
Jesus Christ, in whom I trust, never said the majority of people go to hell. He said, "Many..." and in my experience of over 40 years of counselling with all types of people, it's my opinion that some people actually don't wish to go to heaven. Believe it or not. I almost think they'd be uncomfortable there.
I believe that whatever conscience we have on this side, we take with us to the other side. After all, your conscience isn't hardware, it's software.
After nearly 40 years of studying the Bible intensively, I am also convinced that hell isn't just a place of fire, but there are different levels just as the Bible describes different levels in heaven. Same as on this planet. There are people who are very sane and stable and people who are miserable and off their rocker.
And as to whether there is a God, I know that my intellect didn't create itself nor did this gorgeous, intricate planet. If you just poke around a bit into the nature of DNA, you will realize that DNA operates purely on information. How did that information get installed into it? How does a computer get information installed?
Order doesn't come from chaos, but from an intelligent creator who isn't a show off (unless you look at gorgeous sunsets from time to time or see the Grand Canyon), but He pretty much just whispers His truth to you.
At the tender age of 20, I quit wondering if He existed because someone suggested that I ask Him. So I did and I began an intensive search and I ended up a very happy, peaceful Christian.
No, most people don't go to hell, but a lot do and it's always your choice.
Very nice sentiment.
I was going to make a snarky remark. But I can't
nice view on life
Hope to meet you on the other side
I had a dream not too long ago, one of a few that will always stay with me. If I ever had a vision of heaven, it came in two dreams I had.
Anyway, I dreamt that God was calling mankind home to Heaven. Everybody was boarding busses and an angel was helping us board. I think it may have been Jesus, I'm not sure. I was just getting on when I remembered our little dog. I said I'm not leaving her behind so I got off and frantically began to look for her. She was right there and I scooped her up and jumped back on. I was so worried I'd drop her or she'd jump or fall off I just sat on the floor the second I got back on the bus. The bus began to move instantly. One second we were at the top of a mountain in our county, the next we were miles away but still in the county. Then the bus began to lift off the ground and it was like looking down from ain airplane. I took one last look at the world and felt some sadness leaving it but at the same time I knew joy because we were heading for a far better place. Of course I woke up just as we left the world behind but could remember the intense emotion of the dream.
There is a story about a young boy who was very sad during church and afterwards the minister asked him what was troubling him. The boy said his dog died and he missed him and wanted to know if the dog would be all right in heaven without him. The minister said he was sorry but only people go to heaven, not animals. The boy looked troubled and then asked if God would be angry at him if he was sad in heaven because he couldn't be truly happy there not having his best friend with him. The minister thought about this and then said he was wrong about animals not going to heaven. God wants us to be happy and if having his dog there with him would make him happy then that's where he'd be.
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Who said the "majority" of humans are going to hell?
