Why I Don't Believe in Adam (salvation, translation, genesis, myth)

[Hueffenhardt]

This thread is mainly for those who literally believe that God created Adam as recorded in Genesis and elaborated on in the Quran.

The first reason why I don't believe in Adam (the one written about in the Bible and the Quran) is because I believe the origins of that story did not come from revelation to Moses or Muhammed, but from the "heathen" Sumerians. The authors of the Bible stoled and slightly changed the story; then Muhammed came along and added a few elements to the story as well. The following wikipedia article is sufficient for my needs and it contains references to more scholarly resources (pay special attention to the section on Mythological Connections): Adam and Eve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The apologist will say, well that doesn't prove that the story of Adam is made up, it just shows that it is a very old story. Perhaps Adam really did exist and his story was passed down from generation to generation being corrupted as it went and then Moses claim along and restored the true account of what happened.

In response, I now turn to two different strands of scientific research that completely support each other and discredit the Adam story. The first is DNA evidence. Population DNA is a field that unfortunately is not understood well by the general public. I would like you all to be able to understand the basics of this field. In short, most of our chromosomes were made by shuffling the genes we got from our mother and father. It can be quite difficult to tell which genes came from which parent unless we know a lot about the genetic makeup of both sides of the family.

However, males have a complete Y-chromosome that they got virtually unchanged from their fathers generation after generation. Now occasionally, a DNA sequence in the Y chromosome will develop a mutation and that mutation will be passed on to all of that individual's male descendents. But, that mutation will not be found in all of the other males in a population. New mutations will occur and be present in different ancestral lines. Now, in addition to these mutations occuring, people migrate, so you end up with clusters of people in different parts of the world with high percentages on specific mutations. Since we know the approximate rate of mutations occuring, we can calculate approximately when a mutation occured and how closely diffirent peoples are related.

In addition, all of us have mitochondrial organelles in our cells that act as power generators for the work the cells do. We all got our mitochodrial DNA virtually unaltered from our mothers. mt-DNA also mutates but at a much slower rate. We know what mutations are present around the world today, and working backwards, we are able to identify our genetic "Adam" and our genetic "Eve".

Now, many Christians believe Adam lived 6,000 years ago. They figured this out by adding up the ages of each link in the extensive genealogies given in the Bible. But, we have been able to calculate that the common male ancestor of every living male lived some 60,000 years ago in sub-Saharan Africa, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least until that time. Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in this era. Rather, he is unique because he was the only one to have his descendents survive to the present day. It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all genetic diversity found in the world's disparate peoples. Adam had human ancestors as well, but we have no genetic evidence of them. To learn more about National Geographic's Genographic project view their online exhibit (https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/...hic/atlas.html )

Genetic Eve never knew Genetic Adam. She lived 143,000 years ago. (BBC News | SCI/TECH | Genetic 'Adam never met Eve' )

The third reason, I don't believe the Genesis account of the origin of man is due to the fossil record and what it reveals about human evolution. To save space, and because I am sure many of you are familiar with this, I will just post a link (select launch documentary): Becoming Human

It is interesting to me how both the DNA present in our cells and the fossil record (and the archaeological evidence) testify of the same story for the origin of mans and it is nothing like that recorded in Genesis. We really do share ancestors with modern apes. The fact that that sounds odd is no rebuttal to all of the evidence scientists have gathered. And nothing the Bible or Quran has to say can be taken as an authoritative rebuttal because it is the authority of these holy books that are presently in question.

[Currency Pair Crocodile]

Stuff that people post again and again is also considered spam. Find a hobby, bro, rifleman's covered this extensively

We get it.

[Hueffenhardt]

I just did a search for rifleman's posts about Adam. I did not know that he had ever written on the subject as I am relatively new here. I know I have never posted on such a topic before on city data forums.

Rifleman's post and mine have some overlap, but much was different, and the focus was definitely different, as mine was own my reasons for not believing in Adam, whereas his seems more to do with showing evolution happened.

[TRANSPONDER]

Don't let Antlered Kamchatka get to you. He is ok, but has a tendency for drop-of-a-hat irascibility.

If Rifleman did post on that, it will have been long forgotten. One thing I have learned is that posts are quickly forgotten and the same tired old arguments are posted by the theists having forgotten (if they ever paid attention) the refutations that have been made time and time and time again.

You would not belieeeeeve the 'Historic proof of Jesus' thread. Time and again we knocked down Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallius and Josephus only to have yet another post claiming that Jesus was shown as a historical person by Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallius and Josephus...

[Hueffenhardt]

Thanks, Arequipa!

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt

This thread is mainly for those who literally believe that God created Adam as recorded in Genesis

Then you do not believe in yourself, for you are "Adam" as to your kind, and in you all the fullness of the Adam-head [the First created of our race] dwells fully.
You are "inherently" Adam, come into your being by the germination of the seed created in the loins of the firstborn of our race; and so you are called "a person in Adam" by YHWH ELohym your Creator.

That is what the Bible teaches us, in the original language,about the name of our race. In English we say "man", but in Hebrew, YHWH Elohym calls us "Adam".
Biblically speaking: Adam is made "male and female" [Gen 5:2 ], and "one spirit" [Mal 2:15], of "one blood" [Act 17:26 ], and so all Adam kind is "one flesh", "one bone" [Gen 2:23 Gen 29:14 2Sa 19:132Sa 5:1]


The word, 'adam is written 552 times in the Hebrew OT. It is translated as "Adam" only 13 times, but "Adam" is our own race, and you are an Adam person because you are the seed of your own first father, "Adam", come into your being in your pre-ordained season bounded by your pre-ordained days with your pre-ordained members of your body, written in the book of Life in heaven [all your DNA code, even the numbers of your hair, are written in that book], to come forth in your pre-ordained season, from the seed created in the loins of the first father of our race, "Adam".

from the blueletterbible
web site Version (KJV)
Adam Translation Count — Total: 552
AV — man 408, men 121, Adam 13, person(s) 8, common sort + 07230 1, hypocrite 1

You came from the loins of the first father, and in Adam, you are dead in spirit because Adam died in spirit as a son of God when he ate the fruit, and so all the "living seed" in his loins, which Eve was to "mother", died in his loins, as sons of God called "Adam".
God made Adam male and female, of one Adam spirit [Gen 5:2; Malachi 2:15] because He sought sons of God of the human being kind, by that creation [Malachi 2:15]. The redemption is about getting the sons back for the Glory for which they were created, only, by adoption into the New Man name; and that new man is Christ the Living Spirit, come in human being flesh of a second creation, which flesh is the only created human being brother to Adam and so, the Kinsman/Redeemer, to Adam.
and the Firstborn human being is not named Adam, but is named "Israel", as second Man creation human being, and brother to Adam.

The seed created in the loins of the first Adam were living seed, alive to God, written in the Book of Life; so Adam [the first ish] called his other half [the ishyah built from his bone and flesh, with the remnant of his spirit], "Eve", because she was to mother the living [seed].

But we all died in Adam, as living seed of "Adam, son of God" [Luke 3:38], and must be born anew, of the One Living Spirit/Christ, to be adopted sons of God in the New Man creation name.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If you want to be eternally "alive" as a son of God, and not an "undying [in Adam] worm [as a cast away in the Lake of Fire]", for eternity, then you must be born again in Christ, now, while you have your Adam being intact.

After it is not intact [when you depart the body of dead Adam flesh], it will be too late to be made a son of God in the New Man name, and have access, then, into the presence of the Holy Creator by the adoption into the name of the Son of God, of the second human being creation name.

Adam is dead, as a son of God, irrevocably.
You are Adam seed [a son] and so you are an Adam person. In Adam you are dead [in spirit], dying [corruptible] and shall die [the second death if not born anew, from above].
Jesus is Christ come in flesh to redeem Adam by His Atoning blood [ as Kinsman -the second created human being Kinsman -a brother human being- to Adam[. He made Adam in His own bodily image [Genesis 1:26-28; Romans 5:14], as a son of God and an image of God the Word who was to come. Adam is dead. You are dead and you are not a son of God and you cannot come into the assemblies of sons of God in the heavenlies, being dead in Adam.
But in Christ, you can be made an adopted son of God; and by His Living Spirit of adoption sent into your heart -if you call on His name for salvation- you can then call "Abba, Father", to Jesus, the Firstborn of the New Man creation.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water [The Word] and [of] the Spirit [Christ is that Spirit and the Living Water and the Living Torah/Word], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

[jojajn]

Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt

I just did a search for rifleman's posts about Adam. I did not know that he had ever written on the subject as I am relatively new here. I know I have never posted on such a topic before on city data forums.

Rifleman's post and mine have some overlap, but much was different, and the focus was definitely different, as mine was own my reasons for not believing in Adam, whereas his seems more to do with showing evolution happened.

Moderator cut: insulting.

I found your post and thread very interesting. Please continue to post more like it!

[Bud235]

Jesus = Mohammad ...

Christian God = any other Gods = Allah ...

All religions are the same thing -- they just go by different names.