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I don't know why it did not occur to me to write this earlier.
The christians on this thread seem to be arguing that there is a need for objective morality given by god, and that it is found in the bible.
If that is true, how do you explain the changing morality exhibited by christians throughout history? As a few examples, christians have:
participated in the slave trade--opposed the slave trade,
conducted the inquisition--founded hospitals,
slaughtered one another brutally and by the thousands during the reformation over their religious views,
supported capital punishment--opposed capital punishment,
committed genocide--fought against genocide
How does this show that christians have some objective, unchanging view of morality? It seems to me that christian morality is just as subjective and man made as any other.
You are more than welcome to your opinion. However, if this is truly how you view Christianity and the Bible, you know very little about the subject. The old testament is a history of God's people before the time of Christ. Many of the laws you speak of were laws made by man. They got it wrong. Christianity is based on the earthly life and teachings of the Christ and he did not condone the things you speak of. Christ taught love and patience; he was love and patience. He taught tolerance in so much as you followed God's commands as best you can given the sin nature we are born with. He did not teach us to kill our children, in fact he specifically rebuked those who harm children. He did not tell us not to work on the sabath but instead seperated the chaff and fed his disciples on the sabath in direct defiance of the Pharices and told them that he made the sabath for man not man for the sabath. He taught that sex was reserved for a husband and wife in the holy covenant of marriage. God commanded Moses to lead the Jews out of slavery because it was wrong and his people would not be subjected to it anymore.
If you wish to not believe, that is fine. If you wish to say that Christianity is a sham, that is fine. I will pray for you. However, please do not take the Bible and twist it into something it is not. Either you are not aware of the facts and do not understand, or you are intentially twisting it and creating lies for a purpose I cant see.
could you please also pray that I win the lottery?
I don't know why it did not occur to me to write this earlier.
The christians on this thread seem to be arguing that there is a need for objective morality given by god, and that it is found in the bible.
If that is true, how do you explain the changing morality exhibited by christians throughout history? As a few examples, christians have:
participated in the slave trade--opposed the slave trade,
conducted the inquisition--founded hospitals,
slaughtered one another brutally and by the thousands during the reformation over their religious views,
supported capital punishment--opposed capital punishment,
committed genocide--fought against genocide
How does this show that christians have some objective, unchanging view of morality? It seems to me that christian morality is just as subjective and man made as any other.
True christians have never participated in these things tht you mention. Early christians did not and therefore those who call themselves christians should exhibit these same qualities. This is based on what Jesus taught, not on what man has done to change the scriptures to their benefit.
True christians have never participated in these things tht you mention. Early christians did not and therefore those who call themselves christians should exhibit these same qualities. This is based on what Jesus taught, not on what man has done to change the scriptures to their benefit.
Because its been mentioned before, I cant determine who is a "true" Christian or not, many people who set out to follow Christ were led off the straight and narrow by lots of things, family, money, fame, prestige, their own agenda-not Gods. Does that mean they arent "true" Christians? Not to me IMO. Doesnt the Bible say.. "For all we like sheep have gone astray?" We as Christians, well me, can look back at things I thought I was doing and thought I was right doing it, but wasnt.
The teachings of Christ are very clear to me. I feel a true Christian is one who follows them and refuses to compromise to please man. That is what the first century Christian congregation felt too...
I don't believe that, in any way, places judgement on any person who calls themself a christian. A person's faith is a personal issue between he and God. But I don't see how you can call yourself a 'christian' and ignore certain central aspects of his teachings.
The teachings of Christ are very clear to me. I feel a true Christian is one who follows them and refuses to compromise to please man. That is what the first century Christian congregation felt too...
I don't believe that, in any way, places judgement on any person who calls themself a christian. A person's faith is a personal issue between he and God. But I don't see how you can call yourself a 'christian' and ignore certain central aspects of his teachings.
The teachings of Christ are very clear to me. I feel a true Christian is one who follows them and refuses to compromise to please man. That is what the first century Christian congregation felt too...
I don't believe that, in any way, places judgement on any person who calls themself a christian. A person's faith is a personal issue between he and God. But I don't see how you can call yourself a 'christian' and ignore certain central aspects of his teachings.
Unfortunately this does not allow for anything less than perfection. All Christians have screwed up one way or another and will continue screwing up. That is the whole purpose Christ came and sacrificed for our sins. I see what you are trying to say but it is very close to saying that the only true Christian is one who never screws up - the only one who did that is Christ.
You are correct though that you cant ignore his teachings. That doesnt always mean though that we get it right. We make mistakes, we get caught up in this world, we dont understand and therefore misinterpret. It is the reason we need to have the fellowship of other Christians - as I said in an earlier post, who you hang with is very important to your growth and spirituality.
So Christ expected perfectionof us? How do you figure that? Following Christ's teachings is absolutely possible even allowing for imperfection. He would never have taught that we should be perfect...just that we should do our best. A True Christian tries his best. It's not supposed to be 'easy'. That is why Paul said he had to 'pummel his body and lead it as slave'. We have inherited imperfection and must fight these tendencies on a daily basis. But making mistakes and willingly practicing wrongdoing are NOT the same thing.
So Christ expected perfectionof us? How do you figure that? Following Christ's teachings is absolutely possible even allowing for imperfection. He would never have taught that we should be perfect...just that we should do our best. A True Christian tries his best.
That word True again, a true Christian is one who has asked Jesus into his heart, or hers. Sometimes we fall down, make mistakes, dont feel like getting back up sometimes. Sometimes that down time is for a little while or a long time, but we are still Christians. I heard a song once that said, a Saint is just a person who keeps getting back up after a fall. Isnt all sin willful? the question is, will we continue in that sin?
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