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[/quote]I agree that it's certainly a good idea for the tenant to know where it is, but shouldn't it be the landlord's responsibility to TELL them where it is? After all, it seems like this situation is costing the landlord more money than the tenant.[/quote]
Probably to some extent...although, as it is sounding right now, they do not intend on fixing this properly!
Last edited by jdangelo1235; 01-13-2012 at 06:36 AM..
Reason: forgot to quote
I apologize that my posts came across as overly harsh. Your post rubbed me completely the wrong way (partly because the water ran for so long, and partly because you were upset that the LL couldn't get a fairly extensive repair involving probably a dozen different subcontractors completely done in 3 days, LLs don't have a magic wand that can just make the problem go away, and partly because you were upset that the repairmen didn't put your stuff, that they had to move because it was in their way, back where it would be in their way again next time) and I reacted perhaps more than I should have. So while I stand by what I said, and still think it is good advice, I apologize for how I said it.
I'm not saying you caused the damage. Assuming it was just a mechanical failure, NO ONE caused the damage. It just happened. It sucks. It sucks for you and for the landlord, both. I am saying that if the water had been shut off quickly, then the damage could have been much less and much faster to repair. But as it is, the damage is severe, and you will have to accept that it is going to take weeks to fix. Or move.
You've said there is no damage to the bathroom, so I also apologize for listing that incorrectly. I was taking it from the fact that you said in your first post "At that moment water started to dump down through our bathroom and kitchen. It was coming through the ceiling and walls." That sounded like bathroom damage to me.
I also did offer advice, as you asked for in the title of the thread. I suggested you call your renters insurance company and see what you could get reimbursed for, and that you either take your landlord up on the offer of moving, or move your stuff out of the way and accept that it will take a few weeks to fix. You took offense even to my suggestion that your renters insurance might cover the costs of your move.
So I apologize for being harsh, but I stand by my advice. Call your insurance company and find out what they cover so you know your options. Either move to another unit or move your stuff completely out of the way and prepare for a month of repairs. Learn where your shutoffs are in case of future emergency. I don't think any of those were bad advice.
Lacerta, I usually find something in your posts helpful. Not this thread. I, like many others, find your posts incredibly blaming - even after the apology. If it is a tenant's responsibility to know where the water main shut off is, then it is the Landlord's responsibility to SHOW them before being asked. The main responsibility is on the LL. And you know I am both a LL and a tenant.
Additionally, I do not see any reason for the tenant's insurance company to pay out. This is an unforeseen "accident", if you will, but it is ALL on the landlord who, in my opinion, is WHOLLY responsible for any and all damage to the tenant's property both from the water and from the lack of care given the tenant's property by the workers.
I definitely believe the tenant needs to contact an attorney - google: [your city/county] Bar Association Lawyer Referral Service to get a 1/2 hour (generally) reduced rate consultation with an attorney specializing in this area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacerta
I knew you wouldn't like my post, but as a LL, if a tenant had let gushing water run for a full 20 minutes without turning off the water main, while they were home and able to do something about it, I'd be pretty ticked at them, so reading that really got me going. The time to know where it is is before a disaster happens. You don't have to know why you have gushing water to run for the main shutoff and stop the problem immediately. If I had gushing water in my house, I could have water turned off in 30 seconds.
I'm not blaming you for the fact that it happened, that wasn't anyone's fault, but you could have stopped it when it was just a minor problem and not a major remodel. So I don't think it is fair to ask for the LL to pay your expenses to move. We actually have it in our lease that if something happens that makes the property uninhabitable, it will immediately terminate the lease and the tenant will be expected to vacate immediately. The landlord's only liability is to return their security deposit (assuming it was no-fault damage). In my opinion, this falls under that category.
I did give my opinion on advice, that you can either take them up on it and move, or accept that it will take weeks to get it back to the condition it was in before, with people in and out of your house constantly. I've never had renters insurance (when I rented, I was young and dumb and didn't have any insurance), so I don't know what exactly it covers, which is why I said "get reimbursed for whatever you can, possibly including..." I know some insurance policies do cover things like moving expenses, or hotel stays. Yours might.
And yes, I would have the entire room emptied out that they need to work in, even if that means my living room couch had to go in a bedroom for a while, while the TV went in another bedroom, and everything else went in the dining room. My house is only 1250 square feet, so I don't have a lot of room to move things around, but I would have figured out a way, expecting that everything was going to have to be moved to fix the problem. Especially since they had to move your belongings once, and the problem wasn't fixed yet, obviously there were things in the way, so they shouldn't have had to move anything the next time they came back, because it should have all been moved by then.
Your original post did say that they had been in the house on Monday (ripped out carpet/pad and put down fans), Tuesday (cleaned up collapsed ceiling) and Wednesday (put new pad down), so that is where I got that they have been out each day.
I see three or four things that I think they've done wrong so far, or haven't done that they could have. First, they maybe should have just torn all the carpet and pad out if there was that much water on it, but the carpet is often salvageable if you replace the pad, which is what it sounds like they are trying to do. Second, they shouldn't put new pad in unless the carpet and floor are totally dry, which it sounds like it possibly wasn't. And third, they should have come and cut out all wet drywall by now, and have fans going in those areas too. (Oh, and fourth, if you have a crawl space, they probably need fans down there too.) So they definitely haven't done everything they could have by now, but your post very much sounds like you are ticked the problem isn't totally fixed already and that is completely unreasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils
How considerate of you.
I agree that it's certainly a good idea for the tenant to know where it is, but shouldn't it be the landlord's responsibility to TELL them where it is? After all, it seems like this situation is costing the landlord more money than the tenant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacerta
I apologize that my posts came across as overly harsh. Your post rubbed me completely the wrong way (partly because the water ran for so long, and partly because you were upset that the LL couldn't get a fairly extensive repair involving probably a dozen different subcontractors completely done in 3 days, LLs don't have a magic wand that can just make the problem go away, and partly because you were upset that the repairmen didn't put your stuff, that they had to move because it was in their way, back where it would be in their way again next time) and I reacted perhaps more than I should have. So while I stand by what I said, and still think it is good advice, I apologize for how I said it.
I'm not saying you caused the damage. Assuming it was just a mechanical failure, NO ONE caused the damage. It just happened. It sucks. It sucks for you and for the landlord, both. I am saying that if the water had been shut off quickly, then the damage could have been much less and much faster to repair. But as it is, the damage is severe, and you will have to accept that it is going to take weeks to fix. Or move.
You've said there is no damage to the bathroom, so I also apologize for listing that incorrectly. I was taking it from the fact that you said in your first post "At that moment water started to dump down through our bathroom and kitchen. It was coming through the ceiling and walls." That sounded like bathroom damage to me.
I also did offer advice, as you asked for in the title of the thread. I suggested you call your renters insurance company and see what you could get reimbursed for, and that you either take your landlord up on the offer of moving, or move your stuff out of the way and accept that it will take a few weeks to fix. You took offense even to my suggestion that your renters insurance might cover the costs of your move.
So I apologize for being harsh, but I stand by my advice. Call your insurance company and find out what they cover so you know your options. Either move to another unit or move your stuff completely out of the way and prepare for a month of repairs. Learn where your shutoffs are in case of future emergency. I don't think any of those were bad advice.
Lacerta, I usually find something in your posts helpful. Not this thread. I, like many others, find your posts incredibly blaming - even after the apology. If it is a tenant's responsibility to know where the water main shut off is, then it is the Landlord's responsibility to SHOW them before being asked. The main responsibility is on the LL. And you know I am both a LL and a tenant.
Additionally, I do not see any reason for the tenant's insurance company to pay out. This is an unforeseen "accident", if you will, but it is ALL on the landlord who, in my opinion, is WHOLLY responsible for any and all damage to the tenant's property both from the water and from the lack of care given the tenant's property by the workers.
I definitely believe the tenant needs to contact an attorney - google: [your city/county] Bar Association Lawyer Referral Service to get a 1/2 hour (generally) reduced rate consultation with an attorney specializing in this area.
I'm not an insurance person, which is why I said that they should call their agent and find out their status, but I disagree that the landlord or their insurance has been shown to be liable for the tenant's expenses here. In my experience, landlord insurance will not cover tenant's belongings or tenant's expenses in most cases. So if the landlord pays it, they will likely be paying out of their own pocket, which isn't right either. Accidents like this are why tenants should have renter's insurance. It is only on the landlord if the burst pipe was due to negligence or faulty construction in the first place. If it just happened as a fluke thing, then the landlord's insurance covers repairs to the structure, but the tenant's insurance can and should be responsible for covering the tenant's expenses.
And with that, I will leave this thread. Obviously, my opinion has not been helpful. I apologize for that.
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