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I moved out of a house I rented in NJ at the end of October (lease was paid through November 30). Here's my situation - I'd love to hear what anyone thinks about whether or not I have any kind of case in small claims court.
1. When I moved in in 2009, there was an ancient stove in the house. I asked if I could replace it with a new one. Landlord said yes. I then asked if they wanted me to keep the old one for when I moved out, they said no, they'd pay me for it. Like a moron I didn't get a firm price for them at the time. Also, the old behemoth of a stove (think 1950s Frigidaire), when it was removed, left some spots where the tile didn't match existing tile once the new one was in. I should mention that the lease says I own any appliance I have to replace. I suppose we could argue about whether it "had" to be replaced. But for comparison, after hurricane Irene destroyed the existing washer in the basement, the landlord said I had to replace it if I wanted one and that of course, I would own it.
2. I move out at the end of October this year. From day one of my telling them I was moving out, they've been trying to rook me on this stove. First it was that they didn't want it, then they wanted it but weren't going to pay more than $200. Then, after my showing a receipt for much more than that, they up it to $250. I was sick of arguing over it so I said fine.
3. Last week, the step-daughter of the landlord (basically acting as the landlord's representative) says that I left the house in good shape, they were going to give me back the whole security deposit. BUT - they weren't going to pay me for the stove because a) a window was broken (it was broken when I moved in but I can't prove it) and b) because of the mis-matched tile in the kitchen.
They're totally unwilling to compromise on the point. So the last word is, they're sending me a full check for the security deposit and they're basically stealing the stove from me. Two things. I know that morally, I'm in the right, but whether or not I have any real legal recourse I'm not sure. If they send me back the full security deposit and then withhold money for supposed house repairs by not paying me for the stove, how does that work? Could I take them to small claims for basically stealing the stove from me by not paying for it? Seems to me that if I went to court with that, plus an accounting showing that they already gave me back the full security deposit, they're out of luck. But then, I'm no lawyer.
I think I would send them a certified letter pronto, stating your desire to be reimbursed as promised for the range, and include a copy of the receipt. Be brief, but recount your conversations with the various people.
If that doesn't work, I'd be really tempted to say "See you in court".
they cannot charge you for repairs that they don't actually do, so if they want $250 for that window, they better have proof in writing that the window was repaired, and that it cost $250.00 And old stains from the previous range on the floor tiles............in a house as old as yours, with the ancient range in the kitchen first, they'll have a heckuva time proving you are the cause of those spots.
I think I would send them a certified letter pronto, stating your desire to be reimbursed as promised for the range, and include a copy of the receipt. Be brief, but recount your conversations with the various people.
If that doesn't work, I'd be really tempted to say "See you in court".
they cannot charge you for repairs that they don't actually do, so if they want $250 for that window, they better have proof in writing that the window was repaired, and that it cost $250.00 And old stains from the previous range on the floor tiles............in a house as old as yours, with the ancient range in the kitchen first, they'll have a heckuva time proving you are the cause of those spots.
Thanks for the opinion. As regards the floor, it's more that whoever lived there 30 or so years ago never put new linoleum tiles under the stove, so when the old stove was replaced, the mismatched tiles are now visible. But again, I don't see how they can charge me for that. Interesting what you say about the cost of the repair of the window. They've yet to give me any accounting of the repair costs, but the fact that they're giving me back the whole security deposit to me nullifies the whole issue. If they were smart, they'd have taken the cost of repairs out of the security deposit (which is, after all, what it's for). At least, that's what I think.
I should mention that the lease says I own any appliance I have to replace. ... after hurricane Irene destroyed the existing washer in the basement, the landlord said I had to replace it if I wanted one and that of course, I would own it.
I'm a little confused. If your lease says that you own any appliance you have to replace, that to me seems clear that you can then legally remove those appliances and take them with you when you move. Or sell them. But they're yours to to with however you see fit. If you didn't understand this and didn't take the appliances you replaced then I'd suggest you advise the LL accordingly. Ignorance of the law (i.e. your lease in this case) isn't any excuse but if you ended up in small claims court on this you could well prevail providing you have a copy of the lease along with receipts for the replacement appliances and written documentation of all this nonsense about the old stove. In turn they would probably countersue you for alleged damages but I doubt the flooring issue would prevail although they would probably win a minimal amount for the broken window.
Just wondering about couple of things. You say they didn't want the old stove, so what happened to it? Did you sell it or dispose of it? If you sold it, who received that money?
You say the lease states that if you have to replace any appliances, you own them. According to you, rent was paid for a full month after you were leaving, so it was still "your place". If you were unhappy with their offer & didn't want the stove yourself, why not take that extra month to try and sell the stove for what you thought it was worth?
I agree that the issue of security deposit & the stove should be handled separately, but again, if you didn't like their offer for YOUR stove, why did you leave it?
Not sure you would get far in court (just an opinion) because with the return of your security deposit in full, the issue of the stove becomes pretty much " he said, she said". Also, unless you bought a pretty expensive stove, it's now 3 yrs old, $250 might well be a good offer.
Just wondering about couple of things. You say they didn't want the old stove, so what happened to it? Did you sell it or dispose of it? If you sold it, who received that money?
You say the lease states that if you have to replace any appliances, you own them. According to you, rent was paid for a full month after you were leaving, so it was still "your place". If you were unhappy with their offer & didn't want the stove yourself, why not take that extra month to try and sell the stove for what you thought it was worth?
I agree that the issue of security deposit & the stove should be handled separately, but again, if you didn't like their offer for YOUR stove, why did you leave it?
Not sure you would get far in court (just an opinion) because with the return of your security deposit in full, the issue of the stove becomes pretty much " he said, she said". Also, unless you bought a pretty expensive stove, it's now 3 yrs old, $250 might well be a good offer.
I didn't take the stove with me because I accepted their offer of $250 (grudgingly, but I did accept it). They didn't say anything about not paying me at all until after November 30, when I was no longer the renter and had returned the keys. I needed to rent for one more year (I moved to another state) so I didn't really need the stove, and they wanted a stove in the house to sell it. The original stove was simply hauled away when the new one was delivered, I didn't get any money for it. And my original agreement was that they'd just buy the one I'd bought from me when I left.
I forgot to add what I think is causing all this: the landlords were a couple. The husband died back in May and his wife is letting her step-daughter handle all this mess. Now, I know for example, that the couple both knew about the arrangement because at times I talked to each of them about it. But now the step-daughter is trying to claim that since she had no knowledge of these verbal agreements she doesn't have to honor them.
Thanks for the opinion. As regards the floor, it's more that whoever lived there 30 or so years ago never put new linoleum tiles under the stove, so when the old stove was replaced, the mismatched tiles are now visible. But again, I don't see how they can charge me for that. Interesting what you say about the cost of the repair of the window. They've yet to give me any accounting of the repair costs, but the fact that they're giving me back the whole security deposit to me nullifies the whole issue. If they were smart, they'd have taken the cost of repairs out of the security deposit (which is, after all, what it's for). At least, that's what I think.
Exactly. Go after the stove. They would lose this one in court. A security deposit is for the things they are claiming you broke....They can't keep the stove...fight them in small claims court.
Exactly. Go after the stove. They would lose this one in court. A security deposit is for the things they are claiming you broke....They can't keep the stove...fight them in small claims court.
Not just the stove but the aforementioned washing machine ...
Ah, so I misread your post and the stove they're not paying you for is the new stove which you purchased and for which they agreed to pay you $250. Frankly you wouldn't have got much more for it if you'd sold it privately so the offer was realistic. What's NOT either realistic or legal is them refusing to now pay you what they agreed to pay you for the stove. I suggest you write to them (return receipt certified) and tell them that (a) you expect to be paid the agreed-upon $250 for the stove; (b) that this payment is entirely separate from any security deposit deduction; (c) you deny all responsibility for the old flooring which was exposed when the old stove was removed; (d) you likewise deny all responsibility for repair of the window which was already broken when you moved into the unit, and (e) you expect full return of your security deposit in accordance with state law as well as payment for the stove. Further advise them that if any deductions are made from the security deposit you won't hesitate to file in small claims court.
In fact, according to state law (and you should check PA's laws which are linked in the first "sticky" on this page)) a landlord in most states has only a maximum of 30 days to return the security deposit and any deductions must be accounted for and itemized. If your landlord is already outside that time limit then legally you get your entire security deposit back, period. Check those details before writing.
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