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No. I've studied the law. Prove me wrong. Taping it would show that he only took his own stuff. That's not against the law. Like I said, prove me wrong. Anybody can look up law. You don't have to be a lawyer, police officer or a judge to look up the law.
It's fascinating that because you "studied the law" you're convinced that you're right. Just a few days ago a poster started a thread here about a landlord tenant issue which he was able to resolve after getting some basic input from contributors. In his last post advising the outcome he mentioned that both he and his wife are attorneys but that landlord tenant issues are not their field of expertise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe
He showed up on Sept 2nd to changed locks. His tenancy was not terminated as of that date.
He said he would be out by the end of the month. One presumes that since he went on September 2nd to finish removing his possessions his tenancy did indeed end at the end of August.
His rent was overdue by one day, not withstanding any grace periods that may be in his contract. And the notice he gave was that he wouldn't move until the last part of September.
Really? Where did he say that?
Read the original post. The police scolded the roommate for disposing of his property without evicting him. That says to me he was still a tenant.
It says nothing of the sort in reality. The police do not get involved in civil disputes of this nature but their actions in no way indicate that they believed the OP was still a tenant, only that the landlord was wrong in changing the locks without going through the eviction process.
If I've got my facts wrong, then I give. But, if the facts above are correct, I stand by my opinion.
This is an interesting case. I wanted to re-examine the statements made by the OP so am putting everything he wrote in one place in order to take another look at it.
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Originally Posted by DoniDanko
On top of having my own apartment a hour away, I sublet rented a room from some people that was closer to my place of employment. I'm usually not there, but I had a fully furnished room with a flat screen TV, entertainment center, clothes, etc. I'm not on the lease. I informed my roommate that I planned on moving out towards the end of the month. We never had any issues, and we were always respectful of one another.
I showed up on Sept. 2nd to move, and found that the locks were change. My roommate has thrown away my documents and other things she did not want, and has furnished her living room with my other belongings. I called the police and they scolded her by saying she did not evict me and had no legal right to throw my belongings out which she admitted to doing. While she's talking to the officers, I can clearly see the stuff that was in my room now sitting in her living room, but she claimed it was hers and mine was thrown out. The officers were very helpful, but stated there was nothing they could do about the stuff that was still there; however, they charged her with 18.2-137(A) Destruction of Property for the belongings she claimed she threw out.
My question is, being that she has stated in front of several officers that I was a tenant there and that legally I was not evicted through the courts, can I go through an open window while she's at work to retrieve the belongings that she is trying to steal without being charged with breaking and entering? If not legally evicted, would I still be considered to be a tenant there even though I'm not on the lease?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko
Can you post citations, any laws that you know off, codes, your experience, etc? How did you come to this conclusion? Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like some background information if you could. Can a landlord who has not evicted a tenant have that tenant arrested for accessing (breaking into) his/her residence so they can retrieve their belongings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko
Yea I do not want to go through all of that if I can peacefully and legally just bring witnesses, video tape, etc while removing my "stolen" property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoniDanko
I hear you, but it doesn't make any legal sense to me. Logically it sounds incorrect that a landlord who did not evict can lock a tenant out illegally (was not within their rights to lock them out in the first place), and then have that tenant arrested for entering a home that they had a legal right to access before they were illegally denied access.
It is not absolutely clear above if the DoniDanko planned on moving out the end of August or the end of Sept. If DoniDanko has paid the rent for the full month of Sept. then he still has a legal right to enter the property and take his stuff. Even if he has to break down the door to do so. He will of course be liable for any damage he does the door.
If he has not paid the rent for Sept. then it appears he has no legal right to re-enter the property, doing so would be breaking and entering. In which case it would appear the safest course of action for him to take is to sue for damages through the courts. Damages for any property that was disposed of as well as requesting a court order to allow him to recover the remaining property that is in the residence. This should be an easy win in court.
This is an interesting case. I wanted to re-examine the statements made by the OP so am putting everything he wrote in one place in order to take another look at it.
It is not absolutely clear above if the DoniDanko planned on moving out the end of August or the end of Sept. If DoniDanko has paid the rent for the full month of Sept. then he still has a legal right to enter the property and take his stuff. Even if he has to break down the door to do so. He will of course be liable for any damage he does the door.
If he has not paid the rent for Sept. then it appears he has no legal right to re-enter the property, doing so would be breaking and entering. In which case it would appear the safest course of action for him to take is to sue for damages through the courts. Damages for any property that was disposed of as well as requesting a court order to allow him to recover the remaining property that is in the residence. This should be an easy win in court.
I would think he can go either way. One does not cease to be a tenant when the rent is not paid. So I would think he can perfectly well force entry and remove his stuff.
Note that the police will not listen to his LLs complaint either. They will classify it as a civil dispute.
He can also win the other way. But it will likely be a Pyrrhic victory. LL will deny any of the stuff is his and will likely make anything valuable disappear. Unless our tenant has exceptional records he may well be unable to demonstrate that the particular TV set is his. He may even win a substantial money judgement. It will however turn out there is no rational way to collect it. So four or five month and a good bit of effort later and nothing to show for it.
Please remember that legality is beyond the scope of this forum...
I would appreciate it if you could explain this comment further. It is not immediately clear to me what we can and cannot talk about here in regard to landlord-tenant laws and leases.
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner Please remember that legality is beyond the scope of this forum...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn
I would appreciate it if you could explain this comment further. It is not immediately clear to me what we can and cannot talk about here in regard to landlord-tenant laws and leases.
I think I figured it out by searching for your previous posts withe word "legal" in them. However a clarification in that sticky thread would be helpful to many I am sure.
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Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
Good point since City-Data does not offer legal advice... only members sharing experiences
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
A couple of thoughts...
City-Data is no substitute for legal advice.
City-Data is a forum where people share experiences often of general nature.
I think I figured it out by searching for your previous posts withe word "legal" in them. However a clarification in that sticky thread would be helpful to many I am sure.
Are we suggesting that legal problems are different than car problems or house problems or plumbing problems?
In all cases the advice you get on the internet has to be run through a filter. But off hand I suspect you will do better on legal problems here than plumbing ones...
I would appreciate it if you could explain this comment further. It is not immediately clear to me what we can and cannot talk about here in regard to landlord-tenant laws and leases.
It's a fine line when someone asks for legal advice in a public forum...
The best we can offer is personal experience and/or point someone to the Statutes that might be applicable and that said... advice given freely here is never a substitute for council...
As a young property manager the rental agreements were one page with a second page condition and inventory... that was it.
Fast forward and now my rental agreements are nearly 30 pages with all of the rent control and other mandated information landlords are required to provide in my city...
It's a fine line when someone asks for legal advice in a public forum...
The best we can offer is personal experience and/or point someone to the Statutes that might be applicable and that said... advice given freely here is never a substitute for council...
As a young property manager the rental agreements were one page with a second page condition and inventory... that was it.
Fast forward and now my rental agreements are nearly 30 pages with all of the rent control and other mandated information landlords are required to provide in my city...
I hear and agree. The complexity of life grows.
Then again though...There is in fact a set of circumstances much better suited to a City-Data answer than a legal consultation.
In my experience much of the legal system is simply unavailable for small claims... That is you have to be prepared to put down a few hundred dollars to get advice that is basically there is nothing you can do except try small claims court. And the advice is correct.
If there is not 10,000 dollars at stake the formal legal system is probably not rational. You swiftly discover that the most minor of legal proceedings start with a $5000 retainer. So unless there is real money involved it is off to small claims court.
And the belief that attorneys are good at small claims court is often misplaced. They don't do it other than as an aside for a big customer. And the reason they don't do it is no money involved.
So in many cases CD maybe provide the best legal advice available. All the user has to do is separate it from the BS.
It can be a little time intensive... the local court jurisdiction offers free legal advice for plaintiffs and defendants one afternoon a week...
There are also some good resources online from the courts plus applicable statutes.
My sister in law was in a serious car accident at the time of a difficult pregnancy... the other car missed the red and T-boned her and total the car she was driving.
Several lawyers wanted to take it on contingency with about half going to them if it went to trial.
My Political Science major brother thought it was a bit excessive.
He, with no legal training prepared the complaint and paid a lawyer to review it.
The insurance company was not happy one bit... my brother stance was how would you feel if your wife and soon to be first born had been subject to all the trauma and confined to bed rest for the duration...
Anyway... on the day of trail, actually in the hallway outside of court, the insurance company changed it's stance and settled for 70k...
The $250 he paid the lawyer for the consult and review was worth every penny and then some...
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