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When I applied for my current place, the property manager asked for a check for application fee, deposit and first month's rent. After I gave that, which was accepted, I was given a contract that stipulated it was to be paid by certified funds.
They really don't take that sort of thing seriously here. As long as they get the money by the stipulated date, no one cares.
I knew exactly what certified funds meant. As Lacerta said, this is very common language in real estate transactions.
If this tenant used to be in the business, she knew what certified funds were and not to make the check out to the bank. I'd be really tempted at this point to void the entire contract and go with your other applicant.
BUT, if you are okay with continuing with these guys, I think your plan is perfect. You're saying, um, nice try lady-who-knows-better, but you need to give me certified funds, as the contract you should well know by heart, being the AZ Realtor's contract, or you don't get the dang keys.
I have NEVER heard of anyone writing a check out to a bank. Really, Lovehound, I think this is a huge red flag.
There are lots of "well, maybe they meant to do.....this or that," but my experience is that these kinds of things are never a mistake. Especially by someone who was supposedly in real estate.
At any rate, as you said, their credit is great, so just do as you decided to do which is perfect. You will at least have all the deposit money in "cash" basically, to CYA. And you will have made it clear that, yep I might be a newbie, but I ain't no foooool.
And I see nothing wrong, whatsoever, in your being a LL in CA with rentals in AZ. Or with your doing things exactly the way you are doing them.
I had a rental in my 30's, my first one, which was my home that I rented out in WA and I moved to TN. I hired a PMC that ripped me off and didn't take care of the tenants, and I really didn't know how to handle them myself from so far away, as I hadn't lined up anybody to help then locally like handymen, etc. As you know, I later got my real estate's license, and ended up managing a 26 unit building for 8 years, and managed my daughter's SFH.
If I was in your situation, what I would do is exactly what you're doing. I'd stay very hands-on. And I'd have local people to do drive-bys and I'd have handymen lined up who my tenants could call if I wasn't available. Paying an agent who collects the applications and then advises me, while I make the final decisions, is exactly what I would do. And a 7 hour drive is nothing. Hello, a trip to Los Angeles from SF is longer.
Just because you are new at being a LL does not make you incapable of being one, and a good and very successful one. Landlord-tenant law is not rocket science. And if you are otherwise good at business and negotiations, and handling problems like a manager - you got all that it takes. And having some money don't hurt neither.
1. Tenants to stop payment on improper deposit check, and to make a proper deposit via certified check or money order.
2. I'll instruct my bank to pull the check out of the system and decline to process it. I'll be charged $12.
3. I'll ask the tenants to reimburse me for my bank fee. Actually I can require them to pay me $30 because our now fully executed contract states that if funds are dishonored for any reason they are to be charged $30, but I'm a good guy. I don't take money from people just because I can. I'm satisfied to have a situation resolve in a way that is fair to everybody.
IF, you or your representative/agent accepted and deposited the check, you are not allowed under Arizona law to demand any fee unless the bank itself, on their own, without any instructions from you, refused/retunred the check. You willingly accepted it for deposit and now you want to cry foul?
Who is your advisor because, dang, you are making so many mistakes that any day now you may be on the short end of a tenant lawsuit. Please, for your own good, find a qualified AZ attorney in landlord tenant issues to advise you going forward! I mean, where in gods name did you get the notion that you can charge the tenat for fees the bank imposed on you because you decided after depositing an instrument that you want to go back and have a do over?
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 08-05-2014 at 06:03 PM..
IF, you or your representative/agent accepted and deposited the check, you are not allowed under Arizona law to demand any fee unless the bank itself, on their own, without any instructions from you, refused/retunred the check. You willingly accepted it for deposit and now you want to cry foul?
Who is your advisor because, dang, you are making so many mistakes that any day now you may be on the short end of a tenant lawsuit. Please, for your own good, find a qualified AZ attorney in landlord tenant issues to advise you going forward! I mean, where in gods name did you get the notion that you can charge the tenat for fees the bank imposed on you because you decided after depositing an instrument that you want to go back and have a do over?
I am still confused how the check got deposited. Deposit slip given to the potential tenant and they deposit it with the check written to the bank?
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 08-05-2014 at 06:04 PM..
IF, you or your representative/agent accepted and deposited the check, you are not allowed under Arizona law to demand any fee unless the bank itself, on their own, without any instructions from you, refused/retunred the check. You willingly accepted it for deposit and now you want to cry foul?
Who is your advisor because, dang, you are making so many mistakes that any day now you may be on the short end of a tenant lawsuit. Please, for your own good, find a qualified AZ attorney in landlord tenant issues to advise you going forward! I mean, where in gods name did you get the notion that you can charge the tenat for fees the bank imposed on you because you decided after depositing an instrument that you want to go back and have a do over?
I'll bet that if the OP wanted to take this tenant to court over $12.00, because they didn't perform according to the lease agreement, which therefore caused the OP to be out of pocket $12.00 to remedy, which was cheaper than waiting for the dang check to bounce, BTW, that the judge would require the tenant to pay the OP the $12 plus attorney's fees, because this is a cost associated with a breach of contract.
Give me a bloomin' break. I'd tell them they can reimburse me the dang $12 or we can cancel the contract.
In a heartbeat.
And, if you would have taken the time to read the OP instead of getting on the renter's forum haters train - you would have read that the tenant "deposited" the funds to his account.
But, even if he would have deposited this check, he later discovered that it was also written out to the bank, and not to him.
And you're saying it makes more sense to wait for it to bounce, then incur much higher fees, THEN charge the tenant those higher fees?
Now THAT would be stupid.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 08-05-2014 at 06:05 PM..
And as far as requiring certified funds, or cashier's checks or money orders for move-in funds...
This is how it's done by 99.9% of landlords at least in CA.
The place I moved into here in Redding last year required money orders or cashier's checks. The place I worked as a leasing agent for a while in Sunnyvale, CA, required money orders or cashier's checks. This is the norm.
The place I managed in Santa Clara, we did not require them. But we were by far the exception, not the rule.
This is just incredibly rude of you. To put it nicely.
I'll bet that if the OP wanted to take this tenant to court over $12.00, because they didn't perform according to the lease agreement, which therefore caused the OP to be out of pocket $12.00 to remedy, which was cheaper than waiting for the dang check to bounce, BTW, that the judge would require the tenant to pay the OP the $12 plus attorney's fees, because this is a cost associated with a breach of contract.
Give me a bloomin' break. I'd tell them they can reimburse me the dang $12 or we can cancel the contract.
In a heartbeat.
And, if you would have taken the time to read the OP instead of getting on the renter's forum haters train - you would have read that the tenant "deposited" the funds to his account.
But, even if he would have deposited this check, he later discovered that it was also written out to the bank, and not to him.
And you're saying it makes more sense to wait for it to bounce, then incur much higher fees, THEN charge the tenant those higher fees?
Now THAT would be stupid.
Hate to say it but you need to sit down with a legal advisor and learn the laws of the state.
If the OP stopped the deposit and attempted the charge the tenant some fee the bank charged the OP for their descretionary action, its the tenant that would win in court because the bank wasn't the one who refused the deposit, it was the landlord who is now reversing the acceptance of the funds despite accepting it for deposit.
If the landlrod cancelled the lease over the check, its again the tenant who would win. Although the lease stated certifed funds, when the landlord accepted it or allowed it to be directly deposited, they waivered that requirement.
If a tenant is stupid, I'll call them stupid! If a landord is stupid, I'll call them stupid.
I would also have assumed verified finds included personal checks. I have never known of a landlord to have a problem taking personal checks. You might want to state "no personal checks" as it is not obvious and it is not the norm.
It's for the security deposit, cleaning & pet deposits and first month's rent. Once I have the deposits for all I care they can pay their rent in wampum if the bank accepts it.
The contract states the deposit is for the original deposit before move in to lock the deal.
Just to illustrate the pitfalls of accepting a personal check for the original first month's rent plus deposits, what if they move in and wreck the place and quit paying rent? And then the check doesn't clear or they reverse the charges and refuse to pay? For sure I'm going to be in a lawsuit, but that can all be avoided by accepting only certified funds.
And yes I already said a cashier's check can have a stop payment. I asked my banker about that a month or two ago, just wondering and filling in my banking knowledge, and the answer was yes, you can stop payment even on a cashier's check. Hey, some may disagree but that is what MY banker told me. My expert. YMMV.
When I applied for my current place, the property manager asked for a check for application fee, deposit and first month's rent. After I gave that, which was accepted, I was given a contract that stipulated it was to be paid by certified funds.
They really don't take that sort of thing seriously here. As long as they get the money by the stipulated date, no one cares.
Where is here??? My rentals are in Arizona and Arizona laws and business practices apply.
Just for the record, I live in California and the last time I rented most apartments were rented month-to-month with no lease required. So I know nada about renting or lording land in California.
I knew exactly what certified funds meant. As Lacerta said, this is very common language in real estate transactions.
If this tenant used to be in the business, she knew what certified funds were and not to make the check out to the bank. I'd be really tempted at this point to void the entire contract and go with your other applicant.
The tenant is an engineer. That's why I empathize with her, because I used to be an engineer. I'm not your typical engineer with his head in the clouds, I started with a good basis in personal finance provided by my parents when I was in my teens. I had really great parents who took their parenting seriously, including teaching their kids to manage finances. You couldn't learn that in school then, and I'm pretty sure our current local school system teaches mainly how to qualify for government assistance.
Her husband is a partially disabled vet. I respect anybody who has served in our US military and received injuries. Yeah all I have is their word for it, but I believe them. Maybe I'm naive.
Quote:
BUT, if you are okay with continuing with these guys, I think your plan is perfect. You're saying, um, nice try lady-who-knows-better, but you need to give me certified funds, as the contract you should well know by heart, being the AZ Realtor's contract, or you don't get the dang keys.
I'm usually the great cynic but I think I'm dealing with naive tenants and maybe a beginner Realtor representing them.
Quote:
I have NEVER heard of anyone writing a check out to a bank. Really, Lovehound, I think this is a huge red flag.
Direct quote from my Realtor:
Quote:
The agent apologized that she had misread the rental agreement and only quoted them line 47 which does not include your name, only {my bank name redacted} And the tenant was not near her bank to withdraw funds to get the cashiers check so just wrote a check without realizing that it takes a while to clear a personal check. I am sure that they are just as frustrated and upset with themselves as you are.
Quote:
There are lots of "well, maybe they meant to do.....this or that," but my experience is that these kinds of things are never a mistake. Especially by someone who was supposedly in real estate.
Just to make it clear, my tenants are an engineer and a disabled vet. Their agent appears to be a licensed Realtor, but maybe a beginner.
Quote:
At any rate, as you said, their credit is great, so just do as you decided to do which is perfect. You will at least have all the deposit money in "cash" basically, to CYA. And you will have made it clear that, yep I might be a newbie, but I ain't no foooool.
Well their credit is great. But that's based upon whether they are them. If I'm dealing with identity thieves then I'm s c r e w e d. (the forum censors that word)
Quote:
And I see nothing wrong, whatsoever, in your being a LL in CA with rentals in AZ. Or with your doing things exactly the way you are doing them.
I had a rental in my 30's, my first one, which was my home that I rented out in WA and I moved to TN. I hired a PMC that ripped me off and didn't take care of the tenants, and I really didn't know how to handle them myself from so far away, as I hadn't lined up anybody to help then locally like handymen, etc. As you know, I later got my real estate's license, and ended up managing a 26 unit building for 8 years, and managed my daughter's SFH.
If I was in your situation, what I would do is exactly what you're doing. I'd stay very hands-on. And I'd have local people to do drive-bys and I'd have handymen lined up who my tenants could call if I wasn't available. Paying an agent who collects the applications and then advises me, while I make the final decisions, is exactly what I would do. And a 7 hour drive is nothing. Hello, a trip to Los Angeles from SF is longer.
Just because you are new at being a LL does not make you incapable of being one, and a good and very successful one. Landlord-tenant law is not rocket science. And if you are otherwise good at business and negotiations, and handling problems like a manager - you got all that it takes. And having some money don't hurt neither.
That's what I said earlier. Yeah I'm in L.A. and my properties are in Phoenix, but if I leave in the morning I can eat dinner in PHX and be on the job the next day. And in an emergency my cousin has my back.
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