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I live in an apartment complex that requires (as most places do these days) 60 days notice to terminate a lease. It rolls over into a month-to-month lease if a lease is not renewed at the end of the lease term.
Knowing this, but not able to make a decision exactly 60 days prior to the end of my lease, I gave 60 days notice on November 19th, 2014, to vacate my apartment on January 19th, 2015. My lease contract ends on January 5th, 2015.
When I wrote my notice, I understood it would roll over to month-to-month and assumed I would pay the month-to-month price up until the end of the 60 day notice. That sounds correct, right?
Anyhow, I believe the property manager doesn't understand the lease terms. He says that, yes, I will auto-renew at the month-to-month rate, but must extend my lease for a full 30 days from January 5th, 2015, essentially saying that I will need to give a new 30 day notice on January 5th (extending my payments until February 5th) in order to terminate the month-to-month lease. My lease does show that it requires 30 days to terminate a month-to-month lease; however, I already gave 60 days on November 19th! Why would they ask me to give another 30 day notice on January 5th?
No where on my lease does it explain what the manager is saying. I believe he is interpreting the lease incorrectly, and if what he is saying is true of their policy, they did a very poor job preparing the lease.
It's convoluted and I'll leave it to those with better experience than I to offer a better opinion but what the manager is saying actually seems to make sense. You've given notice of your intent not to renew your term lease. Once that happens you can go month to month but this is a whole new exercise and when you go month to month you're required to give 30 days notice.
If your state landlord tenant laws specifically mandate that month to month notices go by calendar month and have to be given in accordance with rent day (i.e. January 5th) your notice would have to be given January 5th and end February 4th. BUT if your state law simply says that 30 days notice have to be given and you plan on leaving by January 19th, give your 30 day notice on the month to month tenancy on or before December 21.
You'll find your state laws linked in the first "sticky" on this forum but, in my opinion, giving him the required 30 days notice on the month to month should legally suffice and keep the manager's paperwork in order!
I am new to city-data, but checked out the legal links they provided per your suggestion. Unfortunately, I was unable to find anything specific to my situation. I already provided 60 days notice to vacate on November 19th, so the 30 days are well-covered if you go only by the words written in the lease that I signed. Under special provisions (in NC the law is 7 days to terminate month-to-month, unless otherwise listed on the document) it says "30 days required to terminate a month-to-month lease," but it does not say you must wait until the month-to-month lease begins before you can give that notice.
I am confused. Luckily, a family member is an attorney and per our conversation in November, he agrees with my interpretation of the lease. I scanned the lease and emailed it to him, but he has so many medical issues that have come up recently and has not had a chance to read it. Since it has been several weeks, I was hoping someone here may have been through this sort of thing before, either as a tenant, landlord or attorney.
Ah, NC the oddball state which only requires 7 days! I would still just give the manager another 30 days notice before 12/21 - or if he really wants to be sticky about it then just give him the 7 days notice legally required once you segue to the month to month and let him chew on that. Would be interested to see what your family member attorney says. I could well be wrong but it does seem whacky. Cheers!
Yes, definitely- the 30 days is binding because it is added as a "special provision" in the lease (it over-rides the NC law of 7 days). I think I will take your advice and give them another written notice specifically to terminate the MTM lease one month before January 19th (even though their stance right now is that I need to give it to them on January 5th).
I consider myself to be pretty intelligent, maybe not the smartest person ever , but I am certainly literate. It makes me wonder how less literate persons would be able to navigate a legal document which does not clearly indicate this kind of thing (let's pretend the LL is correct). Everything else on the lease is written well and clearly covers other issues, but when it comes to my specific situation, it seems to be purely up to interpretation.
I even asked BOTH property managers to show me where the information is on the lease, and neither of them could. The first manager responded by passing it off to the male manager and said "Maybe he can help explain it to you." The second manager gave the same information as manager number 1, but again I asked "can you tell me where, in the document I signed, is this explained?" His response was to call the regional manager and have her "explain" it to me. I don't need an explanation! LOL. I need to see where it is on the dang lease That is what I am legally obligated to, not their explanations. ARRRGH. Sorry, getting a little irate
I live in an apartment complex that requires (as most places do these days) 60 days notice to terminate a lease. It rolls over into a month-to-month lease if a lease is not renewed at the end of the lease term.
Knowing this, but not able to make a decision exactly 60 days prior to the end of my lease, I gave 60 days notice on November 19th, 2014, to vacate my apartment on January 19th, 2015. My lease contract ends on January 5th, 2015.
When I wrote my notice, I understood it would roll over to month-to-month and assumed I would pay the month-to-month price up until the end of the 60 day notice. That sounds correct, right?
Anyhow, I believe the property manager doesn't understand the lease terms. He says that, yes, I will auto-renew at the month-to-month rate, but must extend my lease for a full 30 days from January 5th, 2015, essentially saying that I will need to give a new 30 day notice on January 5th (extending my payments until February 5th) in order to terminate the month-to-month lease. My lease does show that it requires 30 days to terminate a month-to-month lease; however, I already gave 60 days on November 19th! Why would they ask me to give another 30 day notice on January 5th?
No where on my lease does it explain what the manager is saying. I believe he is interpreting the lease incorrectly, and if what he is saying is true of their policy, they did a very poor job preparing the lease.
Any thoughts or experience in this matter?
Sincerely,
katnc
Unfortunately, I think your landlord can get away with this. It's not nice of him, but he's trying to keep the place rented until after the holidays.
NC apparently lets LLs write leases that override the 7 day law. I also found a notice to vacate by a NC property management company that says if the tenant doesn't give the proper 60 day notice, they are then stuck for another 60 days. What these things tell me, is that NC law allows the LL to set the terms.
I guess you could try to argue that your 60 day notice also included a 30 day notice from December 5th, to end the month-to-month contract on January 5th, but you hadn't actually started that contract yet.
It's unfair, IMO. But, I think your LL is within his rights. Your current lease ends January 5th. You've basically agreed to a month-to-month agreement that begins January 6th. And you'd have to give 30 days notice to get out of it.
Only you can decide if it's worth going to court over 17 days rent. But, I don't think you have a slam dunk. And if you lose, you'll have to pay their court costs.
But, you could try continuing to be a squeaky wheel, and hope you can be irritating enough that they'll give you what you want. This often works for me.
Glad I saw this thread. I'm thinking of moving next Summer when my lease is up and also have that bizarre 60 day/then month to month policy. What's even more strange is there is also a clause that I can break the lease any time for a stated fee, which is actually cheaper than paying all these extra months for a move out notice! Anyway, let us know how this works out as I'm curious as well.
Thanks for your response. I wrote to the regional manager regarding my situation, hoping that the company will eventually give in or meet me halfway- something. I am pretty sure that if this were to ever go to court, that a judge would rule in the complex's favor, not mine, so I agree with you. In order to save $500.00 it isn't worth the legal battle. I did write the following letter to the regional manager:
Dear _______,
I appreciate your help in advance and I apologize for this lengthy letter. My name is ________ and I live in the _______ Complex in Cary, NC. Your contact information was provided to me by the property manager here, ______. I will be moving from my apartment sometime in the next few weeks and I provided notice to _______ on November 19.
My current lease ends on January 5th, 2015. I couldn't give exactly 60 days prior to that exact date; however, I did understand that due to this, my lease rolls over to month-to-month. After reading the lease, my understanding was that I would pay a pro-rated portion of the month-to-month rate until I have met the end of the 60 day notice.
______ has informed me that I have not provided adequate notice, that only when the new MTM lease begins am I able to provide a new 30 days notice in order to terminate the lease. So, instead of paying until January 19th (60 days from my notice) I now have to pay until February 5th, 17 days beyond the required 60 days for the current lease term. 17 days at month-to-month is around $500.00 more that I will need to pay to your company.
This does not make sense to me. I understand there is a reason that 60 days are required, as there are certain things that you must do in order to get the apartment leased and plan for renovations (I understand all the vacant apartments are being renovated). I also understand the need for a 30 day notice if you are already in a month-to-month lease; however, there is nothing on my lease which states that if I roll into a month-to-month lease, that I must provide an additional 30 days notice at the beginning of the month-to-month lease.
Everything else on the lease is quite standard, well written and clearly understandable. Pet policies, deposit policies, maintenance policies, etc. are clearly written so that a layperson like myself can easily follow the rules of their contractual agreement.
In this particular situation, I feel as if the words on the lease are being slightly bent in favor of the apartment complex and that ______'s explanation of my legal obligation are not spelled out in the actual words that I signed my name to. I asked the manager-in-training to show me where this is explained on the lease, and instead she said "Maybe _____ can explain it to you." I then, in an email to ______, asked "Would you mind telling me exactly in the lease this is stated?" Instead, he pointed me in your direction so you could better "explain" it to me. This tells me the specific parts written regarding notice are flawed.
Again, thank you for reading this lengthy letter. I believe I am well within the written terms of the lease by vacating on January 19th; however, I do not want to find myself in a legal battle should the complex disagree.
You didn't give notice by 60 days, this, you have to stay until end of lease term, then give 30-day notice. You are interpreting your lease incorrectly. The manager is right!
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Would be interested to see what your family member attorney says. I could well be wrong but it does seem whacky. Cheers!
, but I am certainly literate. It makes me wonder how less literate persons would be able to navigate a legal document which does not clearly indicate this kind of thing (let's pretend the LL is correct). Everything else on the lease is written well and clearly covers other issues, but when it comes to my specific situation, it seems to be purely up to interpretation.
