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The law is the contract, it states the fee is for early termination of the contract much like your cell phone or satellite contracts. If it was rent it would be double dipping but it is not rent it is a completely separate fee. It is almost like you guys think anything paid is for rent, security and cleaning deposits are not last months rent the same way this early termination fee isn't rent.
Mmmm, nope. Contracts are not laws.
My point was to make someone aware that they may have just been giving someone a bad time, simply for the purpose of giving someone a bad time. As opposed to providing valuable and helpful information.
However, there are definitely laws against double dipping. And many states have laws against early termination fees, which are actually liquidated damages clauses, which are not normally allowed by the courts. In certain circumstances, and in certain jurisdictions they are still allowed, however.
But, don't believe that just because something is in a contract means it is legal. Contracts often include clauses that are not legal. Even contracts written by lazy lawyers.
what states do not allow a termination fee written in to the lease ?
usually it is only to a landlords advantage if he knows he can re-rent right away since they get no other damages no matter how long it takes.
but i am not aware of any states that do not allow it . there may be a few but i am curious which ones if there are
California for one. There can be no non-refundable fees of any kind in CA - other than the application fee, which has a maximum amount it can be by law, and must reflect actual costs.
Any other fees, whatsoever, no matter what they are called, are considered part of the security deposit, and are to be treated as such - including the max amount allowed, etc., etc.
There is both statutory law California Civil Code Section 1950.5(m) and case law on this matter. Originally the legislature said security deposits must be refundable, then landlords started calling things non-refundable "fees." Then the legislature said no matter what you call them, they are all part of the security deposit and are treated as such.
California for one. There can be no non-refundable fees of any kind in CA - other than the application fee, which has a maximum amount it can be by law, and must reflect actual costs.
Any other fees, whatsoever, no matter what they are called, are considered part of the security deposit, and are to be treated as such - including the max amount allowed, etc., etc.
There is both statutory law California Civil Code Section 1950.5(m) and case law on this matter. Originally the legislature said security deposits must be refundable, then landlords started calling things non-refundable "fees." Then the legislature said no matter what you call them, they are all part of the security deposit and are treated as such.
I googled the issue and see plenty of replies from CA lawyers who say that landlords and tenants can negotiate and include in a lease termination fee in their contract, so you might need to check your facts.
Are you an attorney, or are you applying your interpretation of the law, or do you have experience with this and won (or lost) a judgment over this issue?
I got no dog in the fight, but I would be surprised that the CA law would not permit a landlord and a tenant including a lease termination clause and fee in a lease contract. if you have a citation that specifically addresses this from the CA code, please share it.
Last edited by Westbound and Down; 06-09-2015 at 04:53 PM..
My point was to make someone aware that they may have just been giving someone a bad time, simply for the purpose of giving someone a bad time. As opposed to providing valuable and helpful information.
However, there are definitely laws against double dipping. And many states have laws against early termination fees, which are actually liquidated damages clauses, which are not normally allowed by the courts. In certain circumstances, and in certain jurisdictions they are still allowed, however.
But, don't believe that just because something is in a contract means it is legal. Contracts often include clauses that are not legal. Even contracts written by lazy lawyers.
Maybe you don't understand how laws or contracts work and taking what I said out of context is a good way to invalidate your argument. Fact is contracts are legally binding in all their terms unless there is a law to prohibit a clause within the contract. You asked someone to point out a law that supports the use of an early termination fee and that is completely contradictory to what laws do. The very nature of a law is to either force (insurance and taxes) or prohibit (discrimination and speeding) actions, not allow them.
I did a small search and haven't been able to find a single state that has a law prohibiting the use of early termination fees. Actually most states seem to support this in some form or another like mandating landlords to find replacement tenants though even that isn't uniform. Your struggle with the topic is in your thinking that early termination is a form of rent paid and it is not in any way shape or form.
Personally I HATE the use of early termination fees because it is in this grey area in many places across the country and I have said repeatedly people absolutely despise senseless fees. It is just as easy, if not easier because you avoid court dates, to charge rent by the day to the new lease start date plus any advertising involved to find that tenant but that could turn out to be considerable. A property management company commonly take the first months rent to place a tenant and most states have very fast deposit turn around times, AZ is 14 days, on deposit refunds. Because of the deposit refund time it is pretty hard for me to take actual real damages from a deposit to place a new tenant and as an owner I will likely never actually see the money returned. Even with all that I still don't like early termination fees and would rather charge a tenant after the fact but that is just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westbound and Down
I googled the issue and see plenty of replies from CA lawyers who say that landlords and tenants can negotiate and include in a lease termination fee in their contract, so you might need to check your facts.
Are you an attorney, or are you applying your interpretation of the law, or do you have experience with this and won (or lost) a judgment over this issue?
I got no dog in the fight, but I would be surprised that the CA law would not permit a landlord and a tenant including a lease termination clause and fee in a lease contract. if you have a citation that specifically addresses this from the CA code, please share it.
The law they like to quote is the one that prohibits the use of any non-refundable deposits in CA. The law was amended because of landlords started to change security deposits to fees and work around the law so the law now says there is no non-refundable fees allowed in a lease.
Last edited by AZ Manager; 06-09-2015 at 05:27 PM..
I googled the issue and see plenty of replies from CA lawyers who say that landlords and tenants can negotiate and include in a lease termination fee in their contract, so you might need to check your facts.
Are you an attorney, or are you applying your interpretation of the law, or do you have experience with this and won (or lost) a judgment over this issue?
I got no dog in the fight, but I would be surprised that the CA law would not permit a landlord and a tenant including a lease termination clause and fee in a lease contract. if you have a citation that specifically addresses this from the CA code, please share it.
The California code is listed in my post. But, I don't get the sense you really care to understand California law. Whether or not you understand it, does not concern me.
The California code is listed in my post. But, I don't get the sense you really care to understand California law. Whether or not you understand it, does not concern me.
I asked for the 'citation' where I can read it for myself, as in a weblink. I am not googling anything you posted.
I think you have your own interpretation of the law, with no actual experience with how the law (or lack thereof) is actually interpreted in a CA court.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 06-09-2015 at 11:15 PM..
I googled the issue and see plenty of replies from CA lawyers who say that landlords and tenants can negotiate and include in a lease termination fee in their contract, so you might need to check your facts.
California has TWO law regarding rental leases. Those two laws have very different requirement on lease terms, restricted covenants, fees, refundable/non refundable, lease termination clauses and mitigation. When you read those attorneys responses that clearly seems to be contrary to what many people believe, I suspect they are probably talking about what is known as a nineteen fifty-one four lease. Nineteen fifty-one four leases allows early termination fees, can impose non-refundable fees and (best part) has absolutely NO DUTY on the landlord to mitigate. We can sit on the empty unit for the entire term of the lease with the tenant having to pay the rent each month.
Additionally, landlords have been successfully able to argue in court that the law applies to monies collected including security deposits but not to anything agreed to outside the lease and deposits. It's complicated and that why so few even get into the discussion.
most states are like that. you will find much is not law but set by precedence . right now new york is like that with courts divided on whether landlords have to mitigate at all so no law exists.
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