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We are hiring an attorney but I would like input here as well.
We moved out from a 2 year rental recently. We cleaned thoroughly, mowed, removed trash. For example, I cleaned inside the freezer, all the shutters inside, the windows inside, washed all the floors, scrubbed the porch, etc. Without getting into specifics, there were some minor repairs that we were responsible for and we took care of those prior to moving out. TBH, we busted our tails getting it nice. Was it perfect? Well, obviously not because we did live there, but it was gleaming. We have rented previously and have always gotten all our deposit back.
The day after the move out my DH did a walk through with the LL. LL was pretty non-committal but mentioned it looked nice and said just some minor things (spiders on the exterior windows). DH was not very high pressure but he is very non-confrontational.
During the next few weeks, we emailed and called LL several times asking, is there anything we overlooked? Anything we can do? (House is now vacant and we didn't move that far away). No response from LL.
25 days or so from move out (law here is 30 days) LL starts sending nasty emails that there is tons of damage. Some of the things clearly didn't apply--a rotten wooden storm door when the lease specifies that all exterior maintenance is LL's responsibility. We did not know the door was rotten, and no one noticed during the walkthrough. Another that the stove was "grimy". I had bought new stove grills and cleaned as well as I could. We argued back and forth a bit. LL sends nasty email saying to the effect, "I'm going to send back all but $250 and if you fight me I'm going to keep everything". We were not pleased AT ALL with being threatened. But he sent the check with a letter that says "if you agree to these deductions then deposit the check". We were still angry but decided it wasn't worth $250 to deal with him anymore. Plus he is an attorney in his home town.
35 days past move out he sends my husband a whole bunch of nasty emails and random photos claiming extensive damage. Things like a string on a blind was tangled. He claimed we had never changed the air filters, which was not true. We did, many times. He claimed we never cleaned the baseboards, which I did many times. The house is very old and very dusty and if I had not done those things it would have been disgusting. He said a toilet seat was dirty, which IDK, is a cost of maybe $20? It goes on and on.
Now we have an email that demands we pay him a certain amount of money in 2 weeks time or he will sue us. He says we should not have cashed the check because we knew all these things were wrong and we did not tell him. As far as I know it is not incumbent on the tenant to disclose to the LL anything? Isn't that why they have 30 days? He is threatening to sue us for the full cost of the stove which, BTW, is 20 years old. He says the grills that I bought are not the right brand because they are not black enough. (I bought them on Ebay and have the details that specify they are the right brand). Also we have not seen the first receipt or work order that he claims to have done.
At first when I read it I just wanted to throw up and thought maybe I'll send him the money to make him go away. Then I realized if I send him this now, it sets a precedent and there is nothing to stop him a month from now or a year from now demanding more money.
Like I said, we are calling lawyers, but if you made it this far, I'd appreciate your opinions.
I have never in my life had anyone be so nasty to me and that includes my sisters in law.
35 days past move out he sends my husband a whole bunch of nasty emails and random photos claiming extensive damage. Things like a string on a blind was tangled. He claimed we had never changed the air filters, which was not true. We did, many times. He claimed we never cleaned the baseboards, which I did many times. The house is very old and very dusty and if I had not done those things it would have been disgusting. He said a toilet seat was dirty, which IDK, is a cost of maybe $20? It goes on and on.
I'd say let him sue. He had a full 30 days to determine damages and then sent you an accounting along with a check for the remainder. Him coming back with such minor, minor complaints and stating he's going to sue you over them unless you pay appears illegal to me. I mean, it's his responsibility within the 30-day time frame to discover if a dang toilet seat is dirty or a blind string is tangled (petty, petty complaint, btw). He sent you a check for $250, you accepted it and moved on, case closed. Now of course I'm no lawyer, but I would hope that they and a judge would agree there's no case there. Oh, and I would think there's no way he'd get full cost on a 20-year old stove even if it was damaged.
Only because the LL is an attorney, in this case, you should at least consult with an attorney. I think you are in the clear, however, and the LL is bullying you.
We are hiring an attorney but I would like input here as well.
We moved out from a 2 year rental recently. We cleaned thoroughly, mowed, removed trash. For example, I cleaned inside the freezer, all the shutters inside, the windows inside, washed all the floors, scrubbed the porch, etc. Without getting into specifics, there were some minor repairs that we were responsible for and we took care of those prior to moving out. TBH, we busted our tails getting it nice. Was it perfect? Well, obviously not because we did live there, but it was gleaming. We have rented previously and have always gotten all our deposit back.
The day after the move out my DH did a walk through with the LL. LL was pretty non-committal but mentioned it looked nice and said just some minor things (spiders on the exterior windows). DH was not very high pressure but he is very non-confrontational.
During the next few weeks, we emailed and called LL several times asking, is there anything we overlooked? Anything we can do? (House is now vacant and we didn't move that far away). No response from LL.
25 days or so from move out (law here is 30 days) LL starts sending nasty emails that there is tons of damage. Some of the things clearly didn't apply--a rotten wooden storm door when the lease specifies that all exterior maintenance is LL's responsibility. We did not know the door was rotten, and no one noticed during the walkthrough. Another that the stove was "grimy". I had bought new stove grills and cleaned as well as I could. We argued back and forth a bit. LL sends nasty email saying to the effect, "I'm going to send back all but $250 and if you fight me I'm going to keep everything". We were not pleased AT ALL with being threatened. But he sent the check with a letter that says "if you agree to these deductions then deposit the check". We were still angry but decided it wasn't worth $250 to deal with him anymore. Plus he is an attorney in his home town.
35 days past move out he sends my husband a whole bunch of nasty emails and random photos claiming extensive damage. Things like a string on a blind was tangled. He claimed we had never changed the air filters, which was not true. We did, many times. He claimed we never cleaned the baseboards, which I did many times. The house is very old and very dusty and if I had not done those things it would have been disgusting. He said a toilet seat was dirty, which IDK, is a cost of maybe $20? It goes on and on.
Now we have an email that demands we pay him a certain amount of money in 2 weeks time or he will sue us. He says we should not have cashed the check because we knew all these things were wrong and we did not tell him. As far as I know it is not incumbent on the tenant to disclose to the LL anything? Isn't that why they have 30 days? He is threatening to sue us for the full cost of the stove which, BTW, is 20 years old. He says the grills that I bought are not the right brand because they are not black enough. (I bought them on Ebay and have the details that specify they are the right brand). Also we have not seen the first receipt or work order that he claims to have done.
At first when I read it I just wanted to throw up and thought maybe I'll send him the money to make him go away. Then I realized if I send him this now, it sets a precedent and there is nothing to stop him a month from now or a year from now demanding more money.
Like I said, we are calling lawyers, but if you made it this far, I'd appreciate your opinions.
I have never in my life had anyone be so nasty to me and that includes my sisters in law.
How much is he trying to sue you for? I don't understand these attorney-landlords who decide to make money by cheating their tenants out of theirs. Your landlord sounds like my slumlord's evil twin. I've been posting about him in another thread here. MY slumlord sent me a 14 page diatribe complete with his attached utility bills, accusing me of watering some petunias and keeping the lawn a little green. When I refused to cave in to his demands, he gave me 30 days notice.
I'm debating as to whether even bother trying to clean up my apartment because I think SL will treat me just like your LL is treating you. The TOILET SEAT was dirty and he wants $20 for THAT? Even if it was, and it doesn't sound like it was, that takes - what? A few sprays of toilet bowl cleaner and 5 minutes cleaning with the toilet brush? Jeez!
Like campion noted, the dude should have noticed any problems in the walk-through. If he sent you a check for whatever amount AFTER he had already done the walk through with you, seems to me that he was agreeing everything else was fine, just like you were agreeing to accept his decision on the condition of the apartment by signing his check.
You haven't been in that apartment for over 35 days. Apparently, none of these problems were present when LL wrote the check. If there's a problem now, what's it to do with YOU?
Maybe your LL got drunk or high on meth and wandered around the apartment in a blackout and missed the toilet when he took a whiz. The next day he was in a really bad mood thanks to the hang-over from hell and he sent YOU the bill for HIS misdeeds. Why not? Who can prove anything at this point? That story works as much as his.
I don't know. These sorts are just such low life scum, and they get away with things like this all the time.
Did you take pictures when you moved in and moved out? Did you leave the toilet dirty? Did you leave the stove dirty? I'm not saying he's right (he's a *rick to be honest) but, as a tenant, you do have to clean your unit when moving out.
I also believe he's bullying you and he thinks because he's a lawyer, he can. He's an idiot for sending nasty emails to you, make sure you print all of those and take screen shots of the texts he sent you as well. The one where he says pay or I'll sue...that's called extortion and it's against the law.
Consult with a lawyer (real estate lawyer who deals with landlords/tenants) and make sure you bring ALL of that documentation. Fight this a-hole with everything you've got and keep us updated.
In my opinion this twit has no case. Many, many attorneys are two pieces of bread short of a sandwich and this sounds like one of them. As has been said, he's just employing bully tactics. In a nutshell, he legally had his bite of the apple, he took it and it's over. On something like this I personally wouldn't even retain a lawyer and, if this goes to Small Claims court, most jurisdictions don't permit lawyer representation anyway.
I did get a chuckle about the spiders. I had a very peculiar landlady and was in the place only a year. When I moved I did as you did - cleaned the place way above and beyond the "broom clean" lease stipulation. I had pre and post move photos (just in case, one never knows). She agreed to have a move-out inspection with me (not legally required) but, through no fault of my own, that never happened. She then turned around and decided she was going to deduct $100 from my security deposit because there was a small spider web in one corner of a ceiling along with (eek) a small resident spider.
To cut a long story short and after some ridiculous back and forth, I told her that if she didn't immediately send me the full deposit I would file against her in Small Claims court. She laughed and said, "Oh, you wouldn't sue me for $100!" "I would and I will," I said and followed up with a confirming email advising that if the cheque wasn't received by such and such a date a week hence I would immediately file my claim. I received the cheque.
I'll wish you "good luck" but don't think you even need it ...
Last edited by STT Resident; 08-15-2013 at 05:48 AM..
Don't reply to his emails or phone calls AT ALL. Ever.
Every time you reply to his email, it keeps the conversation going.
If you get a lawsuit, then you deal with it. He isn't going to sue you. He knows he won't win.
This is great advice - I'd follow it. I had to deal with a rotten ex-landlord back in November-February, and stopping the conversation was important. Once I decided to sue to get back some money owed me, I stopped replying to emails (even ones threatening to leave throw out to the curb a stove that I'd purchased and they'd agreed to purchase back from me).
Thanks for the input. To answer some questions, the amount he is demanding we send him is not all that much....that's one of the weird things. He's claiming thousands in damages, so why would you only demand a part back? Why not all of it back? Why not keep the entire security deposit in the first place?
Yes, I cleaned. I cleaned the stove. I had covered the whole darn thing in easy off. I bought new grills. He's complaining they are the wrong color grills...not black enough. I cleaned the toilet. IDK if there was a stain on the lid, but even if there were a new seat is maybe $20 at the most and you don't need a plumber to put one on. I cleaned things I wasn't required to clean, like the chandeliers and the shutters and the porch swing. Yes I have after photos but they are pics of each room. I didn't take close up pictures of the toilet seats.
I think a lot of this is coming from the wife. But my whole point is, you had your 30 days. And threatening us now is .... What? Stupid? Illegal? IDK.
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