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Regardless of what it says the company did not take measures to secure the box so he can sue to get his $600 back and filing fees. When there are special circumstances like this it trumps what's written in the lease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsnation34
The company has a drop box to accept payment. Going to be tough for them to turnaround and say the OP shouldn’t have used it to make his payment. Actually, it will be impossible. If that is their defense, they should just drop it now
If the lease provides for a specific method of payment in a specific manner (smart landlords include this in their lease), that is the default they can fall back on. However, in all cases, the tenant still has the burden of proving they paid the rent as stated in the lease. Claiming the rent was paid on time and stolen from the lock box may work to get a Judge to void the late fees, but unless the PMC admits that this specific tenants check was stolen from their lock box, the tenant really has no claim against the PMC without proof they deposited the rent in that lock box. For all we know the tenant was late paying so they had a druggy friend help them out with this scheme and the check never made it into the box. Now, odds are we're talking Joe Average landlord and Sally Ordinary PMC, but pitted against a true professional PMC, the tenant will end up paying the PMC for their attorney's fees
In Jan 2016 I moved into a house in henderson nevada that was managed by a property management company. Nice house, great price and good neighborhood. Did intitial walkthrough and noted several broken items that still aren’t fixed (previous tenant had also noted these, they provided me with their walkthrough notes, that’s another story)
Anyway, fast forward to September 2016. I had paid my rent as I always do, on time, directly at the management agency office, since they were right down the road. This particular agency for some odd reason would only accept either a wire transfer or a certified check in person for payment of rent, an inconvenience, but whatever, I dealt with it. So, I made my payment after hours in their drop box slot like I’d done many times before, and thought nothing of it (they never send out statements or receipts).
Sept 15th and I wake up to an evicition notice on my front door. No phone calls, not even an email from the management company about “hey, we haven’t received your rent, what’s up”. Nothing.
So I call them, And cannot get ahold of them, not answering calls or emails. (They had been doing this to the landlord as well). I get really pissed, drive down there and confront them and demand to know what’s going on. They claim they never got the rent payment, and now I still owe for the month of September plus a $600 (!!) late fee. I freak out and show them the copy of the receipt for the certified check I had drawn from Wells Fargo and a printout of my bank statement proving the money was taken out. Still they refuse to budge. So in the meantime I had to pony up another $1280, but I flat out refused to pay them any late fees.
Went to Wells Fargo and they ran the history on the check deposit, found out it was cashed at a Check city by someone named Stephanie. I immediately went to Las Vegas metro police and filed a report. Police detective did some investigating, and got Check City’s surveillance footage and found out that apparently, this woman had somehow fished my rent check out of their drop box, washed the name on it and forged it into her name and cashed it.
So. 2 months down the road, Wells Fargo fraud division agrees it wasn’t my fault and reimburses me for the $1280 I had to spend.
After all this, after taking all this evidence to the property management company, they refused to waive the late fees or take any responsibility, even though the crime happened on THEIR property and was due to their negligence. I still refused to pay.
Fast forward to today, and these *******s are threatening me with a civil judgement if I don’t pay those late fees.
I should mention that the landlord/homeowner was so fed up with them and their lack of prompt payment and zero communication with him, that he fired them and agreed to deal directly with us as a private landlord. He has agreed to testify in court as to their negligence and ineptitude as a property management company.
Do I have any recourse to go after these jerkoffs in civil court for the mental anguish, money and now possibly a negative mark on my rental history?
Okay, at this point, you're not out of pocket. You just need them to back off about asking you for late fees.
If they're harassing you to pay them, even though they have been fired by the owner, what I'd do is write them a letter and have it delivered with USPS priority mail with delivery confirmation. And say something like this:
Dear Jerks:
The late fees you are insisting I pay you are not enforceable under Nevada law, which does not allow for unreasonable late fees that would be seen as penalties rather than actual out of pocket losses. This is basic contract law.
As you no longer work for (Owner), you no longer represent him and therefore have no authority to collect money on his behalf. In fact, (Owner) has agreed to testify against you, should you take this matter to court.
I feel confident that the court would find by a preponderance of the evidence that I did, in fact, pay my rent on time, and further, that you were negligent in providing a secure location for tenants to pay their rent.
I demand that you stop harassing me for payments that I do not owe to you.
Please be advised that if you continue to pursue this matter or attempt collection or file suit against me, I will file a countersuit and/or any other legal remedies available to me, as well as report you to any and all authorities and agencies that would be appropriate, including the Nevada Real Estate Division.
Most Sincerely,
You
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It does seem odd that the owner isn't just telling them to knock it off. Ironically, even though he's acting like your pal now, he's really the one you should be suing, as they were his agents, acting with authority to represent him. But, you might as well stay on his good side and just tell them to knock it off. Sometimes you just need to call a bully's bluff.
It's completely inappropriate for them to be trying to take money from you that is really the owner's money. So, I have a feeling there's something hinky going on between the owner and the management company, and they're both kind of attempting to pull the wool over your eyes over whatever is going on between them.
Okay, at this point, you're not out of pocket. You just need them to back off about asking you for late fees.
If they're harassing you to pay them, even though they have been fired by the owner, what I'd do is write them a letter and have it delivered with USPS priority mail with delivery confirmation. And say something like this:
Dear Jerks:
The late fees you are insisting I pay you are not enforceable under Nevada law, which does not allow for unreasonable late fees that would be seen as penalties rather than actual out of pocket losses. This is basic contract law.
As you no longer work for (Owner), you no longer represent him and therefore have no authority to collect money on his behalf. In fact, (Owner) has agreed to testify against you, should you take this matter to court.
I feel confident that the court would find by a preponderance of the evidence that I did, in fact, pay my rent on time, and further, that you were negligent in providing a secure location for tenants to pay their rent.
I demand that you stop harassing me for payments that I do not owe to you.
Please be advised that if you continue to pursue this matter or attempt collection or file suit against me, I will file a countersuit and/or any other legal remedies available to me, as well as report you to any and all authorities and agencies that would be appropriate, including the Nevada Real Estate Division.
Most Sincerely,
You
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It does seem odd that the owner isn't just telling them to knock it off. Ironically, even though he's acting like your pal now, he's really the one you should be suing, as they were his agents, acting with authority to represent him. But, you might as well stay on his good side and just tell them to knock it off. Sometimes you just need to call a bully's bluff.
It's completely inappropriate for them to be trying to take money from you that is really the owner's money. So, I have a feeling there's something hinky going on between the owner and the management company, and they're both kind of attempting to pull the wool over your eyes over whatever is going on between them.
I kind of agree with you on the last part.
Almost seems like the LL “fired them†to save face with his tenants, but behind the scenes still might be working with them to collect money.
I’d file a small claims court suit against the PM company for harrassment and all your expenses (including mileage) trying to resolve the issue. Then I’d let the Judge Judy show know about the suit. It would be a fun experience.
If you have footage of Stephanie fishing a check out of a box then you will totally win. If that's the prescribed place for payment and that place is not secure for the owner, thats the owner's problem, not yours. You have fulfilled your contract obligation. It is not your duty to maintain security of their prescribed place of payment.
If you have footage of Stephanie fishing a check out of a box then you will totally win. If that's the prescribed place for payment and that place is not secure for the owner, thats the owner's problem, not yours. You have fulfilled your contract obligation. It is not your duty to maintain security of their prescribed place of payment.
The OP can't prove they even put the check in the drop box let alone that someone fished it out. The basis for any claim against the PMC will rest solely on the PMC admitting the check was stolen from the drop box. Any PMC worth their salt will force the tenant to prove they used the drop box and not left the check stuck in the office door or sitting on top cause they were too lazy to open the flap.
The OP can't prove they even put the check in the drop box let alone that someone fished it out. The basis for any claim against the PMC will rest solely on the PMC admitting the check was stolen from the drop box. Any PMC worth their salt will force the tenant to prove they used the drop box and not left the check stuck in the office door or sitting on top cause they were too lazy to open the flap.
I'd imagine the same camera that caught the thief would also capture footage of a person putting money into a drop box.
I'd imagine the same camera that caught the thief would also capture footage of a person putting money into a drop box.
This was even clarified by the OP, post #12 I think it was. The camera was not at the PMs office it was at the bank the alleged theif cashed the check at. There is no video of the check being stolen or of the check even being deposited. Burden of proof is on the OP to prove the PM was paid on time and without a receipt there is no proof.
Why is reading comprehension so bad in this thread? Hell the OP hasn't even been back why hasn't this thread died?
The OP can't prove they even put the check in the drop box let alone that someone fished it out. The basis for any claim against the PMC will rest solely on the PMC admitting the check was stolen from the drop box. Any PMC worth their salt will force the tenant to prove they used the drop box and not left the check stuck in the office door or sitting on top cause they were too lazy to open the flap.
No, I don't think a claim rests solely on what the PM says. The courts make a determination in a civil suit based on the preponderance of the evidence - is it more likely than not, the OP put the check in the box on time?
After showing he always paid on time, that the check was stolen and cashed on X-date, with surveillance footage of the thief cashing the check, and the OP disputing payment immediately - before even finding out about the check being cashed by someone else - I think would be enough to convince a judge that the OP was telling the truth.
Then, couple that with a supposed late fee that was 50% of the total rent? And the PM was trying to collect it after being fired? I don't think the court would find the PM very credible or honorable.
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