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I moved out of my apartment less than a month ago, with a $1900 security deposit I was waiting to get back.
My landlord got back to me on how much she is going to give back, and is planning on only returning $1445.
Here is where she is docking off money:
1. Painting walls - When I moved out I patched up any of the drywall where I had nails, or anything hanging from. There weren't a ton of them, but I patched them up and sanded them down. I did not paint the walls nor have I ever, they are their original color. I am willing to give up on this one, even though I am reluctant to. $225
2. Cleaning - This is the one that bothers me. When I left the apartment I cleaned it all. Swept, mopped, cleaned the fridge, cleaned all the countertops and cabinets. So it was left clean. She said she felt it needed a deep cleaning so she hired someone to do a deep cleaning, things like clean up the crown moldings, and these more extreme places, like pulling out the fridge and stove and cleaning behind them. She wants to take out what she paid the person to clean from my security deposit. In my experience it's expected the landlord is the one that will leave the apartment deep cleaned for the next tenant, not the previous tenant. $230
Then she sent a note that she also had to change the AC filters and when the toilet was leaking when I first moved in, she told me she would not charge for fixing that. I am like "Why are you acting like you are doing me a favor for those, that's your responsibility...." but I digress.
My question is, is it even worth it to battle it out to get the full deposit back? Or at least get the cleaning part removed? I feel like what she is docking off from me is rather unfair, and things that are expected for the landlord to do when a tenant moves out. None of this is stated in the lease agreement either that upon moving out that the tenant would have to do those things. But I patched up the holes and cleaned the apartment because I felt it was the respectful and responsible thing to do.
If anything, I would say the cleaning charges are reasonable and the drywall charges are not. My last four leases had clauses that said that if I did not return the place in exactly the shape I found it, I would be charged for a deep cleaning. They also conveniently offered the services of a cleaning service so that I didn't have to clean at all. The cleaning service actually cost less than what they would have charged me if I my own cleaning had not measured up to their standards, so I went with that and merely vacuumed and wiped everything down with a Magic Eraser. In some ways, it is a racket: They know departing tenants are not going to get on their hands and knees scrubbing behind the stove and refrigerator, so I went with the cleaning service. This way, they couldn't blame me if their own contractors didn't do a good job.
As for holes from hanging pictures, I have never heard of anyone getting charged for that. It is considered "normal wear and tear." I also have never heard of anyone taking it upon themselves to patch them up or sand them. Reasonable landlords expect people to hang pictures, and they prefer their own crews or contractors to patch holes so they know what materials are used and it is consistent throughout the property. Maybe they are getting you on "making alterations" to the property because you sanded and patched.
Check your lease. Also, learn from this. Ask what is expected of you before you take it upon yourself to sand, patch, or make other repairs. Often enough, people who mean well end up doing even more damage trying to fix something. It is best to call the landlord for that. That is why they pay maintenance crews.
Umm, why do you think it is the landlord's responsibility to clean up your dirt? You didn't clean all of it, so someone got paid to clean it and that gets taken out of your deposit. It has gotten so professional cleaning is expensive. You can't get anyone to clean a house for $25 any more. $230 is less than it cost me the last time to have professional cleaning for a house, so that is probably a fair charge, especially since I paid that 3 years ago and costs for everything have gone up.
Perhaps your wall patches were incorrectly done? If the patches show, then the wall has to be repainted.
The AC filters should have been changed by you every 30 days, so if those needed to be cleaned, yes, that is your expense and in the next place you live, your AC and heat bill be be less if you keep those filters clean. Just FYI.
Also FYI, you can use command strips for the next house and not put any nail holes in the walls.
You would have to examine the terms of your lease AND the laws in your state, to determine if you have standing to contest this, and if you do, then prepare to take it to small claims court. That's where you handle things like this.
The answers you seek should be from checking those two areas of information first. If your lease does not specify that they can retain part of your deposit for cleaning and "normal wear and tear" type matters, and if your state's laws say that landlords should not withhold deposits for such things, then you could have a case. Then you would need to look at what the process is, the fees and time involved, and decide if you feel it is worth it to you, to pursue.
I have to say, I've always moved into places and been disappointed with the state upon move in. I've always found dirt that needed cleaning, things needing to be fixed right away...I've very rarely (and NEVER with pro managed properties) moved into a place that was really up to snuff. I've always had to go around documenting the condition of the place, all of the issues and damage and problems, and put in work orders right away to fix important things. Every time (except with one private owner who rented to me directly.) And yet, despite the fact that I've got to work my backside off to clean a place before I move myself into it...I am also somehow expected to leave it pristine, to bust my humps to get it perfect, when it wasn't perfect when I got there. And they always (the pro PMs) ping me for some fee for supposedly having to do some kind of cleaning or maintenance once I'm gone.
But in those cases it was a lesser amount, less than $200, which is clever of them because it's low enough that they can be pretty sure I won't see it as worth my time to fight it in small claims.
One thing that is in most state laws is that landlords are expected to paint and replace carpet after some span of years as normal "wear and tear" type maintenance. Most of the time, it's 4-5 years. So the length of time you lived in a place can matter for that. I had been in my last place for 5 years and the walls were not freshly painted when I arrived. I do hang stuff on walls. I talked to the maintenance guy and I told him that if he had matching paint that could be used for touch ups, I already planned to spackle the nail holes and I'd be happy to also touch up the paint. He assured me that he planned to repaint anyways, and was happy if I would just spackle the holes. I got a tube of "nail hole repair" compound and went around and filled the holes and wiped the surface, so that it was not really a big deal.
What killed me with the last place...the toilet seats were in bad shape when we moved in, just old and worn, so I decided to replace them with brand new ones when we moved out. Well on one of the 4 toilets in the place, there was a bolt that was stuck and I'd already packed up my tools, so I was not able to replace that one. I let the PM office know. Rather, of course, than being any kind of grateful that I had bought new toilet seats when I wasn't even the reason they needed replacement in the first place...no, of course not...when they dinged me for like $125 out of my deposit, they said it was because the had to have a maintenance man go replace that toilet seat. With the right tool, we'd be talking maybe 3 minutes of work. Sure wish I got paid that much for 3 minutes of my time. Ridiculous. But as I said...not enough to go to court for.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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There is no use trying to fight it unless you have clear, dated pictures from the day you moved in and the day you moved out to support your arguments. How long were you there? If it was more than about 5 years painting would be considered routine
maintenance, not something to charge you for.
How long did you live there and were the walls freshly painted when you moved in? Too bad you filled the holes because now they stand out and gives him/her a good excuse to ding you for painting. Whereas if you lived there for more than say, 4 or 5 years the landlord would be expected to repaint for the next tenants.
As for the deep cleaning, unless it's part of their COVID protocol to sterilize the apartment before the next person moves in, I'd fight it. Sounds like you did a thorough job of cleaning the place before you left and if they had to clean under the fridge and stove, that sure as heck isn't $230 worth.
Check your lease and if nothing's mentioned in it about painting/cleaning I don't think you are contractually obligated.
“My question is, is it even worth it to battle it out to get the full deposit back? Or at least get the cleaning part removed?”
Calculate the cost to get $455 to make yourself whole. In Florida, where I live, the counties generally charge a court filing fee of $80 to file a claim for less than $500. That does not include the cost for a summons, which could be sent certified mail as the cheapest option (defendant must live in the state). If you win, you can include that you be reimbursed by the defendant.
Calculate the cost to collect the judgement if you win. The courts will not collect for you. You will have to file the appropriate paperwork to try to collect. The fee in Florida is only $20, or $30 if you want a certified copy.
Calculate what your time is worth to complete, file and follow up on the paperwork. Would you need to take time off work? Travel to another city?
My husband and I faced a similar issue with our last landlord. My husband is a retired attorney (although his specialty was not landlord/tenant law) and he felt since we didn’t take photos of the areas in question when we moved in and out (our disagreements with the landlord concerned the cleanliness of the patio and weeds in the lawn), we would just have a he said/they said case and the judge wouldn’t rule in our favor.
........One thing that is in most state laws is that landlords are expected to paint and replace carpet after some span of years as normal "wear and tear" type maintenance. Most of the time, it's 4-5 years. .........
That is a tenant myth.
There is no place in the USA that requires a landlord to replace carpet after 4-5 years, or at any time at all. And no place that requires a landlord to paint every 4-5 years. I think there is one state that requires landlord to paint between tenants (don't remember which state) but in that state if they have a tenant that lives there for 30 years, there is no legal requirement for them to paint or replace carpet at any time while the tenant still lives there.
There are legal traditions about prorating replacement costs for carpet or paint, but not one them has as short a time period as 4-5 year and I am not so sure that is actually written into laws, but it is rather what judges do in contested small claims court. Different landlord use different time periods for prorating and the proration period can depend upon the quality of the item and expected lifespan of the item being replaced.
$225 is extremely cheap to have a professional painter in to paint a wall, so that cost of painting charged to the OP is probably prorated to the life of the paint.
OP can take all of their proof, their documents, and their photos to small claims court if they think they are being cheated. I haven't seen the apartment, or their patch job, or what they think is "clean" so I wouldn't be able to rule on the issue, but if they think they have good proof that will stand up in court, they can file a claim and let a judge sort it out. The judge will give them their money back if he thinks they were charged for no reason.
Because the OP said:
Quote:
I feel like what she is docking off from me is rather unfair, and things that are expected for the landlord to do when a tenant moves out.
it makes me suspect that the apartment was not as clean as the OP says it was, since OP believes that the landlord should be the one expected to do any deep cleaning, like clean the things that are normal to clean with regular cleaning, like the baseboards and the fridge coils. Everyone should be doing those things routinely, not leaving them and never doing them and expecting the landlord to do it when they move out.
But a judge will sort it out if that is what the OP wants to do.
Last edited by oregonwoodsmoke; 03-18-2022 at 01:07 PM..
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