Rent due after notice (apartment, lease, tenants, renters)

[WhyHaveTenants]

I have a rental agreement that states (trying to be precise here, but not so wordy):

"Lessee hereby rents from Lessor, those premises known as xxx upon a month-to-month tenancy, commening on the 21 day of xxx and terminating at 12:00 noon on the expiration date thereof, at the monthly rental amount of $$ due on the 1st of each month."

"tenancy may be terminated by either party on at least 30 days written notice to the other, prior to the expiration of a term of tenancy. In th event of the Lessee's failure to give such notice of intention to terminate, he shall be liable for another full term."

Notice to terminate month-to-month tenancy was given on 11/9 (dropped in mail box and a copy mailed certifed that same day). Keys were given to landord on 12/9 very late at night.

Landlord contends I own rent.

1. Is this a lease month-to-month (I get the impression that leases are diffferent that other rental month-to-month agreements) and does that matter?

2. I understand I owe rent until 12/9. But Landlord contends I own rent for the rest of the month 12/10-31. Do I owe rent for full month ("liable for another term").

3. Do I owe rent for until 12/19 since agreement started on the 19th?

4. Do I owe rent for 12/10 since keys were definately turned in after 12:00 on 12/9 ?

[ZugZub]

Hard to say from that wording, but the phrase "prior to the expiration..." stands out. That looks like it's 21st to 21st. Dunno...sounds like some vagueness in the lease...?

[Babytarheelz]

I hate leases like these, they make my head hurt! Have you asked the landlord for a breakdown of the rent he's charging to see how he's interpreting the lease? Maybe he didn't receive your notice on time (which by the way, it has nothing to do with when you mailed it, it's when they receive it).

But here's how I understand it...

1. I don't know what you're asking here....it is a month to month lease.

2. Yes, you probably do owe for the full month. Check with your state's laws, but typically, month to month leases go calendar month to calendare month after your initial prorate (at least in my state). So, this clause says it all...

Originally Posted by WhyHaveTenants

"tenancy may be terminated by either party on at least 30 days written notice to the other, prior to the expiration of a term of tenancy. In th event of the Lessee's failure to give such notice of intention to terminate, he shall be liable for another full term."

If you wanted November to be your last full month, you would have needed to give a full 30 day notice on 11/1. Since you didn't, you're liable for another full term, hence the rent being charged through 12/31.

3. If your state doesn't recognize month to month leases by calendar month, then you're responsible through the end of the next term, which would be your anniversary date (which I'm not sure if it's the 19th or 21st as your lease stated).

4. Either way, doesn't apply.


I could be wrong here, but that's how I would interpret it. I'd find out from your landlord what he's charging you for, then check with the laws of your state. Good luck!

[sponger42]

No way. You only owe rent through the 9th. You paid for a full day on the 9th, right? You didn't divide that "day's" rent by 1/2? Then you "control" the place until midnight, my friend. Your LL was using an illegal lease. Lots of landlords do. Lease laws are set by the state, and you should look yours up to make sure, not the landlords. He can write whatever he darn well pleases on the lease, but it's not legal and binding unless it conforms with the state's rental laws.

There's a very good chance your state will have a clause in the law talking about prorating based on the date. You did everything legally. Don't let some tool LL squeeze you for money he didn't earn.

Good thing you moved. Your old landlord was obviously a prick.

Check with a real-estate attourney if you're worried. They might give you a free consult and offer to help you (in the form of a cease-and-desist letter that explains the LL's legal error) for a couple hundred if the LL keeps harrassing you.

Specifically:

1. Yes, month-month.
2. No. That's most likely nonsense, unless you're in a very renter-unfriendly state. LL's charge this sort of thing illegally all the time to swindle their renters. There are a few states which are exceptions, so check your local laws.
3. No. Doesn't matter.
4. Again, no. The 9th lasts until midnight, not noon. So if you paid for the 9th, you control the keys until midnight, not noon. Tell your LL that, and try not to add "dumba--" on to the end, no matter how much you want to.

[sueprnova]

so the agreement says'...
"tenancy may be terminated by either party on at least 30 days written notice to the other, prior to the expiration of a term of tenancy. In the event of the Lessee's failure to give such notice of intention to terminate, he shall be liable for another full term."

Seems to me that if you gave written 30 day notice then you're fine.
this basically says that had you NOT given notice then you would be charged a months rent.
In reading further was your rent pro-rated making it due on the 1st of the month?
More info needed

[Babytarheelz]

See, that's what I'm thinking. If his rent was due every month on the 21st when the lease started, then the term is the 21st-21st. If his rent was due every month on the first and the 21st-30th was prorated the first month, then his term is by calendar month. Either way, he didn't give a full 30 days notice according to the expirations of his terms. The question is when do his terms end? If it's the 21st, then he owes only till 12/21. If it's the 30th, then he owes the full month.

[WhyHaveTenants]

Followup
Residence is in California in a city not under rent control.

The rental agreement started on the 21st, but was prorated for the second month to have payments start on the 1st. The refernces in my question for 12/19 should have been for 12/21 (my typo mistake).

The landlord agrees I gave notice on 11/9, but contends that it was not long enough (was after the start of that month period) and contends that I owe for the next full month 12/1 - 12/31 which is more than my deposit.

Do I owe for alll of 12/10 -12/31? I vacated on 12/9?

Landlord also contends that I should have vacated before 12:00 noon.

So if I don't owe for all of 12/10-12/31, do I still owe for 12/10?

[Babytarheelz]

You owe for the full month of December. Your agreement says that you had to give 30 days notice prior to the end of the term. That is the key. Yes you gave 30 day notice, but it wasn't 30 days of the current term. Therefore you are liable for another full term as noted in your agreement.

Then the question becomes, well what are your terms. Since your initial move in rate was prorated and full payments due on the 1st of every month, your term goes by calendar month. So the next full term you're liable for according to the agreement would be 12/1-12/31.

So since you owe till 12/31, the 12:00 noon issue doesn't apply.

It is a tricky read, but it does make sense if you break it all down. I've seen leases set up like this before. Many apartment communities in my area have leases like this and require residents to give notice at the first of the month or be liable for another term. It's common, this one just happens to read tricky. But I think it's completely legit. Good luck!