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Just to give you an idea of the licensing rules - there is such a thing as a "feeding assistant" - who does just that - help people to eat (assuming they don't have any complicated eating problems). To do that job - one needs to take an 8 hour course - be certified by the state - and work under the supervision of an RN or LPN. IOW - anything that hints of medical care isn't amateur hour.
And - FWIW - all kinds of people who are licensed to take care of other people in any medical field are really in high demand these days. They wouldn't work for "room and board". Robyn
How many of you 50-75 year old people are helping your own elderly parents with things like their gardening - or fixing their windows? I'm 62 - my husband's 65 - and we're not even getting on ladders to fix things in our own house! As for cleaning out someone else's garden - it's hard enough to do the easy stuff we do ourselves (we hire professionals for the heavy duty work). Robyn
I'm 66 and I get on ladders all the time. Thought everyone did at our ages. Just curious whether this is something you and your husband have decided you're too old for, or whether there are specific reasons for it. No need to answer if you don't care to of course (I am just curious) because I know your health problems (if any) are none of my business.
Unless your ladder can always sit on a hard stable surface - you have to be an idiot to get up on it. Very easy way to kill yourself or inflict great bodily harm. There was an article a year or so ago about a big deal military guy - a general if I recall correctly - who got through a lot of wars - but broke his neck (and became paralyzed) after falling off a ladder while cleaning his gutters. Also - I'm a retired personal injury attorney who worked on ladder cases. If I don't absolutely have to get up on one that's sitting in dirt (like to avoid a massive flood) - I won't. We have 2 safety rules working around the house. No ladders that don't sit on solid surfaces - and no chain saws.
Moreover - even if we chose to do those things for ourself - would we do them for some stranger? No way. My husband and I have spent years taking care of parents (and we still have 1 alive). My father may outlive us. But if we are the "last men standing" - I'm going to volunteer to help some 90 year old live a creaky existence in a creaky house? No way. Are you? Especially if they have kids who live 1000 miles away and don't lift a finger to help. Robyn
Also - how about day to day stuff - like laundry and cooking? How many of you 55-75 old year old women out there (because it's mostly women who do this stuff - not men) - want to do laundry for a 90+ year old stranger - or cook every day. Whether you've lived alone all your life - with a spouse - and/or with kids. That's my idea of a great time - doing laundry for a stranger when I'm 65. I think you all get the message - I don't buy the concept. Except perhaps for younger healthy seniors - a kind of Golden Girls scenario. Robyn
Unless your ladder can always sit on a hard stable surface - you have to be an idiot to get up on it. Very easy way to kill yourself or inflict great bodily harm. There was an article a year or so ago about a big deal military guy - a general if I recall correctly - who got through a lot of wars - but broke his neck (and became paralyzed) after falling off a ladder while cleaning his gutters. Also - I'm a retired personal injury attorney who worked on ladder cases. If I don't absolutely have to get up on one that's sitting in dirt (like to avoid a massive flood) - I won't. We have 2 safety rules working around the house. No ladders that don't sit on solid surfaces - and no chain saws.
Moreover - even if we chose to do those things for ourself - would we do them for some stranger? No way. My husband and I have spent years taking care of parents (and we still have 1 alive). My father may outlive us. But if we are the "last men standing" - I'm going to volunteer to help some 90 year old live a creaky existence in a creaky house? No way. Are you? Especially if they have kids who live 1000 miles away and don't lift a finger to help. Robyn
It's wonderful that you & your husband can afford to pay for professional help. However, there are millions of elderly people who cannot afford such services.
In my community there is a charitable organization that has volunteers that gladly go out and help seniors with home repairs. Most of the volunteers are older. The Area Agency on Aging depends on volunteers to visit elderly people in nursing & assisted care facilities who have no family or dependable family members to pay attention to their well being. There are many hospice volunteers that sit by an elderly persons beside comforting them any way they can. How about the volunteers who work to bring meals to the elderly? They might get hurt in the kitchen, or get into an accident on the road delivering meals. Thank God for these volunteers. They don't seem to mind that they are helping a "stranger", nor does the recipient mind that a "stranger" is helping them.
Why, would you want to punish an elderly person just because their family either can't or won't help? Don't you think these people feel neglected enough already? Their family doesn't care and neither do you because they are a "stanger".
Very cold harded thinking in my opinion. Strangers have saved people from burning fires, flood waters, accidents and other more subtle acts of kindness. That's just what good and decent people do.
It's not a question of punishment. It's more or less "I gave at the office". And if people want to volunteer - that's ok with me. But if I were a junior senior - I wouln't do stuff now simply because I thought I could count on volunteers to help me down the road. That's an iffy proposition IMO (might work - might not). And there is a very big difference IMO between going to a nursing home and reading a book to someone - versus getting up on a leaking roof and trying to repair it. Don't you think so?
Maybe it's a guy thing (I can climb up a ladder onto a roof and fix it - so maybe I'm still young and virile)? How do you feel about going to a stranger's house and doing their laundry - especially if they're somewhat incontinent and you have to deal with that? We dealt with that with my FIL (even though his SNF had laundry service - there were some things we had to do ourselves when he was having radiation therapy). But - for a stranger - never in a million years. Robyn
P.S. Where I live - any construction/repair work worth over $500 (which is most of it) requires a building permit - inspections - etc. Costs money. So who takes care of the necessary paperwork and inspections in the area you're talking about? And do you mean to tell me that a bunch of people who aren't licensed plumbers - electricians - etc. are doing work they don't have licenses to do?
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55
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How many of you 50-75 year old people are helping ... I'm 62 - my husband's 65 - and we're not even getting on ladders to fix things in our own house! As for cleaning out someone else's garden - it's hard enough to do the easy stuff we do ourselves (we hire professionals for the heavy duty work). Guess you aren't the 'farmer type'. Glad I and the elderly I care for are. We share each others bulldozers and tractors for the "Heavy Duty work", and yes, 90+ yr olds on ladders (climbing 50ft grain bins) daily
...How many "junior seniors" are going to volunteer to lift "senior seniors" who aren't family in/out of cars? Been doing it since I was age 16, part of life, gotta know how to handle it (helping lift people)
Finally - when *you* need help - do you always want to rely on the "kindness of strangers"?..the last thing ..is take care of a stranger ... And who will take care of these ??
I don't know how things work in other parts of the country - but here in the greater JAX area - ...- if you think you're going to get any medical care from unlicensed medical professionals in training on a volunteer basis - you're dreaming. ..
...Just to give you an idea of the licensing rules - there is such a thing as a "feeding assistant" - ...one needs to take an 8 hour course - be certified by the state - and work under the ... RN or LPN. IOW - anything that hints of medical care isn't amateur hour. BTDT, became an eldercare giver the day I became of legal age (18), oh yeah, tube feeding, end of life choices, complex diabetes, LIFTING, and yes LOTS of medical training courses, but, that is yet another part of growing up and VOLUNTEERING. Many yrs of Commercial driving in rural prairie and mtns finds one attending to and administering all kinds of medical care. Some die, some live. No one has ever checked me for licenses.
And - FWIW - all kinds of people who are licensed to take care of other people in any medical field are really in high demand these days. They wouldn't work for "room and board". Oh but they do (apparently not in JAX)
... No ladders that don't sit on solid surfaces - and no chain saws.
Ha, the 85 yr old neighbor was up on a 30 ft ladder today with a chainsaw in one hand, thinning a 50 ft tree TIMBER !!!
Moreover - even if we chose to do those things for ourself - would we do them for some stranger? No way.... Each to his own, I bring strangers into my house if they need care (and they usually have adult kids who are pursuing some 'Important' career somewhere). Have cared for many in their home or mine. And yes, when they die I make sure to kids get everything. I eat OK on $100 / month, I'm not starving.
Also - how about day to day stuff - like laundry and cooking?...- I don't buy the concept.... It's more or less "I gave at the office". And if people want to volunteer - that's ok with me. But if I were a junior senior - I wouln't do stuff now simply because I thought I could count on volunteers to help me down the road. I've never even considered life to be fair (hint: It isn't)
I really don't know if anyone will be there for me, but that certainly has no bearing on my choices today
... How do you feel about going to a stranger's house and doing their laundry - ... But - for a stranger - never in a million years. .... I was cleaning up an elder diaper mess just this week, poor old guy just 'lost-it' out in public, we found a joint to clean him up, them I hauled him home. Way out of my route, but... what was this guy gonna do? He was already uncomfortable, the least I could do was to clean him up and get him home
P.S. Where I live - any construction/repair work worth over $500 (which is most of it) requires a building permit - inspections - etc. Costs money. ... And do you mean to tell me that a bunch of people who aren't licensed plumbers - electricians - etc. are doing work they don't have licenses to do? YES :tape:
Thanks for the details, and best wishes on your retirement.
I think JAX is off my list (not that it ever was ON my list). I think it is east of the Missouri River I will look beyond your world of JAX for a "Village" (I think you are in the minority, in more ways than one)
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 08-02-2010 at 12:36 AM..
Okay, I read through Robyn's postings and though, what a cynical old geezer, but, the more I read, the more light I saw. Yes, he's cynical, grouchy and, perhaps not as willing as others, but honest and pretty close to the target of truth.
For those who haven't had to do long term care (we have an 18-year old severely disabled son who requires us to do everything for him, from bathing, dressing, feeding, diapering, getting in and out of the car, etc.) it's exhausting, and endless. I read the article on Villages that one poster posted and wondered if something like this could work for the special population but, like Robyn, I'm a bit cynical. I don't think that I have the energy to help others for years and years, hopeful to receive help when my son or I need it. I need more certainty in our life situation. Just not sure what the best scenario for that situation is.
What about a 'Village' situation where folks purchase a townhouse, in a desirable place, with separate living quarters as part of the townhouse (separate entrance living area in the attic, or basement, for example). Maintenance would be part of a HOA, with inside maintenance, supplied by HOA staff, paid for privately by the occupant of that townhouse. There would need to be a hospital/care center close enough that could employ folks who might be willing to trade free rent/utilities for minimal care of the elderly person living in the townhouse.
Some of the issues that our family is currently having with my 85-year old mother, living alone: refilling medicine boxes, reminding to take medicines (checking that the box is empty each evening), ensuring that someday sees her each day, checking out her general health and alerting family/medical staff if there is a deterioration.
Do you think that someone who is studying to be a nurse/doctor/care giver would be willing to accept free rent and utilities for one hour a day/seven hours a week, finding one of the other occupant 'care givers/free renters' to fill in, during absences.
Obviously the 'Village' occupant would have to have enough money to pay for the original home, an HOA monthly fee, any additional home repair fees plus the added cost of utilities for the apartment where the helper is living.
It's a bit like the maid quarters in many southern European homes/apartments. All but a separate kitchen/private door.
oconnorcm3 - First - I'm a woman . Second - the kind of living facility you describe exists. It's called an independent senior living facility. My father - 92 - lives in one about 8 miles away from us. It's a villa - about 1400 sf - 2 brs/2 baths. Full kitchen and laundry. He can buy as many dining room meals as he wants (he buys about 25 dinners/month). Complex provides all exterior maintenance - interior cleaning once a week. No laundry service (although it's available from outside vendors if desired). Complex also provides transportation for shopping - doctors - cultural events (my father still drives - but uses the facility transportation service to go to things like downtown concerts).
There are places like this that can be purchased - but a purchase didn't make sense for my father - who was 88 when he moved after my mother died. So this is a rental - costs about $3400/month in a relatively inexpensive part of the country (same type of facility in Manhattan will run over $8000/month).
I'm lucky my father has all his marbles (like my brother the doctor said of him - the engine is still running fine but the chassis is starting to fall apart). Because once you get into the types of problems your mother is having - an independent living facility becomes an "iffy" proposition unless the resident has an aide or family member to deal with the problems you mentioned. Medical stuff is an issue due to state laws and licensing requirements (an aide can check if someone is taking meds - but can't administer meds). At a certain point you have to consider the next "step-up" in care - assisted living - which is more expensive than independent living - or the next step after that - a skilled nursing facility - which is a lot more expensive.
I think you're right that people who haven't been involved in long term care don't realize how tiring it is. My late FIL took care of my late MIL during her lengthy (5+ year) final illness. But my husband and I made many trips to NC to help him deal with things (my SIL lived there and helped a lot too). Then - after my MIL died - my FIL got sick. And we moved him to a SNF here. Where we helped with his care for almost 3 years. In the interim - my mother got sick. My father took care of her during her year+ final illness - and we spent a fair amount of time in south Florida helping him. Then she died and my father moved here 4 years ago (long story and it wasn't an easy transition). Like I said - he is in good health. So we don't have to take care of him - at least not now (although we do socialize - get together for meals - etc.). So we've been going through this for about 15 years now. Stable right now - but who knows what will be 2 years down the road?
I suspect our experience isn't atypical - and - to the extent that it is - it is because our parents had/have the resources to pay for the care they needed/need. So we haven't been taxed as severely as people who have to do everything themselves. Note that these "people" are mostly women. It's all well and good to think you're a great guy because you go out 2 days a month and spend a couple of hours working on a leaky faucet - but try dealing with someone who needs a lot of help almost 24/7. Like when my husband had to drive his father to radiation therapy - 100 miles of driving every day - 5 days a week for 6 weeks. My husband was exhausted. And he was lucky to be retired at the time. Otherwise - I don't think he could have done what he did.
We are also atypical because we don't have children. We have friends dealing with similar elder care situations - as well as problems with children and grandchildren. Sometimes serious personal health issues as well.
Anyway - my husband and I ran out of "elder care gas" after my mother died and my father moved here. We have been recharging our batteries slowly. And - to the extent that we're recharged - we're saving our energy for dealing with my father if he needs help - or for one another if/when we need help. Us older boomers are probably the first generation to deal with lots of parents who live to be pretty old - and I doubt we will have the physical and mental reserves to take care of other peoples' parents on a volunteer basis (especially since many have had to put off their own retirement plans as a result of economic conditions). Robyn
Thanks for the details, and best wishes on your retirement.
I think JAX is off my list (not that it ever was ON my list). I think it is east of the Missouri River I will look beyond your world of JAX for a "Village" (I think you are in the minority, in more ways than one)
You have me pegged. I'm certainly not a farm person. Had never even lived in a single family house as an adult before I was about 50. Suspect our life experiences are very different. And no - I don't think JAX would be your cup of tea (because you've mentioned that you dislike humidity - took the liberty of looking up some of your old messages). Also - I kind of got the impression you're about 10 years younger than I am (I'm 62). I was more resilient physicially when I was in my middle 50's than I am now (ditto for my husband).
From a message you wrote in another thread recently:
"Oh so true... at age 18 (in Colorado) I got tasked with elder care for one parent while the other chose to 'bail' (for next 35 yrs). I settled much debt on both parent's bankruptcy myself due to family / friends / small community involvement in debt. (@ $2.65 / hr working 3 jobs + eldercare).
The 'escapee' parent now needs help (after having me legally dis-inherited, and threatening me and my family's lives). 'Entitlement' siblings seem to think I should go 'round II' and take care of this parent too.
Being a tad broke now, and more than a tad tired, I'm not jumping at the opportunity. I suppose when the rubber hits the road, someone will need to skid. I trust it will not be me, not that I would refuse in a crisis."
You appear to have had a much more complicated situation with your parents than my husband and I did with ours (we were never great buddies with our parents - but they never did anything to hurt us either and we felt obligated to help them when they needed help). I don't know who's in the minority. Doesn't matter. We both do what we think is right.
I agree that one should never do things in the hope of being repaid (no good deed goes unpunished). However I wouldn't make any old age plans (or help anyone else to make theirs) based on the assumption/hope that there will always be volunteers to help me.
Note that I think your 85 year old neighbor is an idiot for getting up in that tree. I'd think he was an idiot if he were 35. Unless he's an experienced tree person (entirely possible in the PNW). There's a reason why workers' comp in Florida runs over 100% of payroll for tree work. Robyn
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Getting on ladders
TIMBER !!! 
I will look beyond your world of JAX for a "Village" (I think you are in the minority, in more ways than one)
. Second - the kind of living facility you describe exists. It's called an independent senior living facility. My father - 92 - lives in one about 8 miles away from us. It's a villa - about 1400 sf - 2 brs/2 baths. Full kitchen and laundry. He can buy as many dining room meals as he wants (he buys about 25 dinners/month). Complex provides all exterior maintenance - interior cleaning once a week. No laundry service (although it's available from outside vendors if desired). Complex also provides transportation for shopping - doctors - cultural events (my father still drives - but uses the facility transportation service to go to things like downtown concerts).
