Financial struggles in retirement - people's own fault or not? (pension plan, move)

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by LauraC

As far as posters go, we just don't know, right? ...

This is a very good point, and one that can (should) humble the most aggressive judgmental types, (but often doesn't phase them). We (USA) are very fortunate to have not suffered much, but there are all kinds of legitimate reasons for folks to be 'in-the-dumps'... just be glad we are not in the Philippines literally living in one.

Originally Posted by brightdoglover

All kinds of things can happen, health included....Divorce. Family responsibility/illness. All sorts of things.

True, the stats are that <50% of US are one major illness from bankruptcy

Originally Posted by mathjak107

life is just to un-predictable...I think luck probley played a bigger part in all our sucess stories....

Luck and beyond, life happens, life is not fair to all

Perhaps C-D forums could provide more positive advice to people who are struggling without going too much into the reasons for their prior lack of planning, profligate lifestyle, whatever.

Teak, You are so right with this comment, offer some hope to others, as they may be suffering for reasons untold (and often unknown)
Thanks for the kind reminder.
SR

[flyfishnevada]

Luck undoubtedly had something to do with most folk's success, but I am not willing to discount making your own luck. People say someone with a million bucks is lucky. But more often that not they worked hard, studied hard, took calculated risks and made smart decisions. While some people were unlucky and lost it all, many of those that are struggling in retirement or even to retire at all, didn't plan, didn't save, didn't find a job with a pension, didn't study hard in school, didn't take good risks, etc.

Is it their fault? Ya, partly, sometimes completely their fault. Is our success all due to our great work ethic and investment knowledge? No, not entirely. Still, I would bet that those of us that are self reliant, hard working, and disciplined fair better on average than those that aren't.

[jghorton]

Originally Posted by flyfishnevada

Luck undoubtedly had something to do with most folk's success, but I am not willing to discount making your own luck. People say someone with a million bucks is lucky. But more often that not they worked hard, studied hard, took calculated risks and made smart decisions. While some people were unlucky and lost it all, many of those that are struggling in retirement or even to retire at all, didn't plan, didn't save, didn't find a job with a pension, didn't study hard in school, didn't take good risks, etc.

Is it their fault? Ya, partly, sometimes completely their fault. Is our success all due to our great work ethic and investment knowledge? No, not entirely. Still, I would bet that those of us that are self reliant, hard working, and disciplined fair better on average than those that aren't.

Good post--Here is perhaps another way of looking at it (as penned by Solomon... often regarded as the wisest man who ever lived - Eccl 9:10-12)


10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning
nor knowledge nor wisdom.

11 I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.

12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:
As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so men are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.

[yellowsnow]

I've gotten a lot smarter in my old age. I used to be one of those cocky people who blamed folks for their lack of planning. There's still no excuse for the people who make an adequate living. But now I know most people don't make an adequate living. I learned this the hard way. For every one of us who was at the right place, at the right time, there is someone else who was passed by. Someone else who is/was just as smart as you and just as deserving. You were lucky and they were not.

We are all interdependent. Like it or not. If someone hadn't been the janitor, done the scut work in your office, made your hamburger, picked up your trash, taught your children, and installed your fence, you couldn't be who you are today. A lot of people contributed to your success.

I moved to Las Vegas when I retired and it's pretty bad here. I know people who have worked all their lives and still can't retire. They just never made enough money to fund the average lifestyle. This doesn't mean they didn't work hard. In many cases, they worked harder than the lucky ones did. As far as savings go, it isn't realistic to save when the kids need new shoes. Or have an ear infection. Saving is a great philosophy but it loses to naked reality for those who live paychecks away from the street. Then there are all the people with health issues and the folks who took high paying physically difficult jobs that are hard to sustain after a certain age and number of years. How about all the people whose jobs were sold to third world countries? Or the people whose employers went out of business or reorganized their employees out of a job.

There are huge numbers of people out there who did everything right and it all came out wrong. They tried. They worked hard. They aren't bad people. They aren't uneducated either.

I am now working part time for a laughable salary 75% less than what I used to make. And guess what? I work harder for that measly amount of money than I ever did at a 'good' job. I've learned a lot and I don't like what I see.

[Escort Rider]

To Yellowsnow: Very well-expressed post above (#14). It makes a very persuasive case.

[Minervah]

I recently came across a situation at work where a man was applying for life insurance through his company. It stated that he had previously earned $350,000 a year. His present salary is now $40,000. I bet he has a tale to tell.

I can't imagine how someone would have to go from that high to that low. Yet it happens and often through no fault of the individual. My salary has never neared $40,000 but I would be extremely happy if it did. To this poor fellow, though, $40,000 must feel like poverty wages.

It's all in the perspective and not always in our hands how our financial fate will be. All we can all do is the best we can. We can't predict our health but we try to stay healthy. We can't predict the weather but we take an umbrella if we think it may rain. No matter how hard we try to save and be prepared for retirement, we can't predict if we will be 100% successful.

Life has many unforseeable obstacles but that shouldn't mean we shouldn't make plans; just beware that "even the best laid plans of Mice and Men often go awry." With all due respect to Robert Burns who knew what he was talking about.

[BestintheWest]

We all make our own luck. Yes I went to college. Worked two yes two part time jobs while a full time student. You got to want it.

Too many sit around and wait for something good to come to them, doesn't work that way in the real world.

Luck had very little to do with where I am today. Planned, lived frugal, now comfortable.

Play you pay.

[oldcoder]

It is always a combination of personal responsibility and luck. I know people who are very lazy and pleasure-seeking, and others who are very hard-working and disciplined. I know people who have serious diseases and disabilities, yet they manage to get in to the office and do their jobs. And I know people who spend their lives thinking of ways to survive without working. I know some who managed to get on disability without being really disabled.

My parents were divorced and we were almost poor. No one ever helped me very much. I didn't want to be poor so I usually worked hard. I didn't have great luck, and I changed careers several times. I was always careful with money and managed to save some, not a whole lot.

Yes I did have some very good luck, and I never got a serious illness. But, as I said, I know people who are very sick but still work hard, and others who are not very sick but love to have an excuse to sleep all day. And you know what -- those people think anyone who works hard is a sucker!

I do not mean to sound judgmental; these are just my objective observations. Yes there are people who get hit hard by life even though they did nothing wrong. And some get everything handed to them and always have it easy. But most are somewhere in between. There is always luck involved, but it is seldom just luck and nothing else.

There were times when I really was sick but I dragged myself to work 12 hour days anyway. There didn't seem to be any alternative.

I have compassion and don't want anyone to be poor in their old age, whether they worked hard or not. But really, if you look around and think of everyone you know, you will probably see that some are much more responsible than others.

[GreenGene]

Life is a crapshoot.

There are people who do everything right - work hard, concentrate on education/training, live within their means, smart with their money, "make their own luck", etc. .... and end up losing everything, or dying at an early age, or whatever.

There are people who do everything wrong - no ambition, no personal responsibility, stupid with whatever money they happen to make, etc. ..... and somehow manage to either pull it all together later in life, or win the lottery.

But the vast majority of people fall somewhere in the middle. Most don't do the absolute very best they can, but they try to do OK; most make good decisions with their money, but could have made better decisions; most try to take reasonable care with their health and fitness, but know there were additional things they could have done; etc. And the vast majority of people do OK - not great, not fantastic, but also not engaged in a day-to-day struggle - in retirement.

Is it the individual's fault if he or she experiences financial struggles in retirement? Yes ... and no.

[oldcoder]

Is it the individual's fault if he or she experiences financial struggles in retirement? Yes ... and no.

As in almost everything, the truth is somewhere between the extremes.