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I wrote that our current economic meltdown began in 2008. You wrote (above) that the roots of it go back considerably before 2008. I agree with that, although we could talk about the details forever. We are both right. I do not understand why you are setting up this opposition.
Not setting up an opposition (see OP), just trying to point out that those who were not able to retire as well as others could have a number of differing factors in their lives. Someone who had a good paying job b/c of a good education and got a job with a pension cannot be compared to someone who did not have those advantages but worked hard all their life just the same. It's so easy for many to assume that their "smarts" alone had to do with their success. Politics and administrations also play a huge part, in general. in the chess game of what classes get what, lest we forget. I appreciate all your comments, and no offense is ever meant. As a former newspaper reporter I was trained to show all sides of an issue and bust through stereotyping. Not much of that kind of journalism going on today!
The rich get the tax cuts, while the folks getting average salaries or low hourly wages get to support the rich (both with taxes and low pay for what they do).
People with low wages don't usually pay taxes, and often they get government assistance. I don't want to sound like a right-winger, because I am not, but the reason the rich get bigger tax cuts is because they pay a lot more taxes. Reagan cut the top rate from something like %90, which you have to admit is a little ridiculous.
Yes of course there are crooked rich people who damage the society, but there are crooks on all levels. That is just life. There are also rich people who worked for what they have. And there are poor people who simply do not like to work.
People with low wages don't usually pay taxes, and often they get government assistance. I don't want to sound like a right-winger, because I am not, but the reason the rich get bigger tax cuts is because they pay a lot more taxes. Reagan cut the top rate from something like %90, which you have to admit is a little ridiculous.
Yes of course there are crooked rich people who damage the society, but there are crooks on all levels. That is just life. There are also rich people who worked for what they have. And there are poor people who simply do not like to work.
It just isn't simple.
Good points. Maybe someone will post here and tell us what the annual income cut-off point is below which a single person pays no federal income tax. I would be curious to know. I have a retired friend whose income is mostly Social Security and he pays not one cent in federal income tax. I have a pension, a very tiny ($134 per month) Social Security retirement, some modest annuity income, and I earn about $10,000 per year working occasional special projects. In the last three tax years, I've paid about $14,000 per year in federal income taxes. Quite a difference!
sold some investment property last year, paid 145,000 in taxes to federal ,state and nyc ..it aint over either as because of the huge amount of state and local taxes paid ill be whacked with the amt tax again this year even with regular income.
I googled some stuff and partially answered my own question about the cut-off point for the poor paying no income taxes. But first, I do realize that federal income taxes are not the only taxes we pay, and this post is only about income taxes.
For the tax year 2009, the personal exemption for a single person is $3,650 and the standard deduction $5,700. When we add these two figures, we get $9,350. That is the amount of earnings below which a single person will absolutely not pay a dime of federal income tax.
In reality the amount is usually higher. For anyone with (a) dependent child(ren) and relatively low income, there is also the Earned Income Tax Credit, the workings of which I won't go into here in an effort to keep it brief. In addition, retirees who receive Social Security but very little other income normally do not pay a dime of federal income tax either, even though the amount of SS income can range up to about $25,000. This is because there is a separate formula for determining the percentage of SS income subject to taxation.
Now, by contrast, let's look at the federal tax table percentages, which go by taxable income. This would mean, at a minimum, amounts which exceed the $9,350 figure from above. I.e., to exceed the 10% rate would require in income of over $17,700 ($9,350 plus $8,350). Income at or lower than:Pays a rate of:
$ 8,350 10%
$ 33,950 15%
$ 82,250 25%
$171,550 28%
$372,950 33%
above $372,950 35%
(Even a person with millions in taxable income still pays 10% on the first $8,350 and so on and on up the table.)
Disclaimer: I have no professional expertise in taxation, just good reading comprehension. So clarifications are certainly welcome!
People with low wages don't usually pay taxes, and often they get government assistance. I don't want to sound like a right-winger, because I am not, but the reason the rich get bigger tax cuts is because they pay a lot more taxes. Reagan cut the top rate from something like %90, which you have to admit is a little ridiculous.
Yes of course there are crooked rich people who damage the society, but there are crooks on all levels. That is just life. There are also rich people who worked for what they have. And there are poor people who simply do not like to work.
It just isn't simple.
From: Reaganomics, a success story (italics mine)
"Certainly corporate taxes were cut significantly, and personal income taxes in certain tax brackets were cut as well. The wealthiest individuals in the country went from paying about 70% in taxes to approximately 28% in taxes.
However tax rates for people in lower income taxes rose, suggesting that the little guy and poorer people were not benefiting from Reaganomics. With fewer government programs, fewer resources were available to the poor. While some government spending was reduced, deficit spending was significantly increased, in part to help rescue the country from the high oil prices of the late 1970s and recession that existed in the country for at least the first two years of Reagan’s presidency. US debt during Reagan’s presidency increased from about 700 billion to over 3 trillion US Dollars (USD), as various economic crises hit the country, and also as a means of compensation for much lower tax on high income bracket taxpayers."
Good points. Maybe someone will post here and tell us what the annual income cut-off point is below which a single person pays no federal income tax. I would be curious to know. I have a retired friend whose income is mostly Social Security and he pays not one cent in federal income tax. I have a pension, a very tiny ($134 per month) Social Security retirement, some modest annuity income, and I earn about $10,000 per year working occasional special projects. In the last three tax years, I've paid about $14,000 per year in federal income taxes. Quite a difference!
That annutiy must be some income because your grosss is only like 11600 before it and adjustements.That wouldn;t even pay the amount your giving on income tax.Your adjust (much lower than gross) would have to be 70,000 plus to pay that amount on standard deduction tables as single.
That annutiy must be some income because your grosss is only like 11600 before it and adjustements.That wouldn;t even pay the amount your giving on income tax.Your adjust (much lower than gross) would have to be 70,000 plus to pay that amount on standard deduction tables as single.
My gross is nowhere near what you have calculated. My small annuities are 100% taxable and so is my pension.
I agree with you that the top of the pyramid is more guilty than the bottom for the economic meltdown which began in 2008 and from which we have not yet fully recovered (and from which we may never fully recover). But unfortunately there is lots of guilt to go around. And I agree that anyone my age (66) just barely got in under the wire by not all that many years, and maybe not even under it depending on the percentage of one's retirement nest egg that was in equities, mutual funds, and/or real estate. My sister is only three years younger than I and she was forced to go back to work a year ago after she and her husband had thought they were all set. And she felt very lucky to have even been able to find a full-time job with benefits, even one with modest pay.
That really is because only the top can control the greed of the bottom as we havfe seen. With consumers being 70% of the economy it has to be controlled. But greed is no different at the bottom than the top really. that is shown by what mnay even college eduated choice will be made when confronted with the possiblity even at great risk to the future. At the same time our parents that were much less edcuated would never have take such risk at the bottom.Greed is a never ending human fault that is likie gambling fever when a person quite thinking for themslefs and joins i what they see happening all aorunbd them. If so mnay at the bottom where not greddy tehn our housing market would be just as satble as canda's where 20% down is the rule.The housing was the bubble that satrted the entire plunge and it couldn;t have happened without main streets greed. Its is the rules to control main streets greedd that is really being vhanged by the new rules because they can't do it themselves really as governamnt sees it.
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The poor, the rich, and federal income taxes
