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Old 03-31-2017, 06:36 PM
 
31,689 posts, read 41,097,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
In California the main goal of all teachers starting in kindergarten on up is to indoctrinate students into reliable lifetime Democrat party voters.
Sounds like their program has been highly effective. If that's the case their performance bonus is factored into their salaries and eventual pension. Good to hear teachers somewhere are meeting their performance objectives.
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,933,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
In California the main goal of all teachers starting in kindergarten on up is to indoctrinate students into reliable lifetime Democrat party voters.
All teachers? Really?
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:05 PM
 
8,238 posts, read 6,596,561 times
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a very worthy goal! :^)
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Retired
890 posts, read 885,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQ2015 View Post
Schools have expanded their mission and become social workers. Cost increases are due to special ed, bilingual ed, lots of teacher aides, expanded lunch and breakfast programs, counseling and alternative instructors, speech therapists, resource teachers for special instruction for at risk youth, transportation, etc. Look at some of the websites with statistics on particular schools. Most schools in my city have 60% or more of students qualifying for the free lunch program. On my last property tax bill, I noticed that 1/3 of the school taxes are for charter schools. There are 19 charter schools in my city primarily for special needs and at risk students. Several of the magnet schools in my city have similar missions for at risk kids. These small charter and magnet schools are costly. In my day, these kids just dropped out by or during high school. Besides the at risk youth, almost every family I know seems to have at least one child with learning disabilities or issues such as Aspergers that require special school programs. No wonder the cost of education has increased so much. And all the school staff are under the pension system with the possible exception of the charter schools.
You hit the nail on the head. We use the school program to keep many children from starving, along with addressing many other social issues. Schools no longer exist solely to provide education.
In Indiana, 50% of births are paid for by Medicaid. No wonder we are having budget issues. We also have to realize, some states have generous pensions for teachers, and some do not. I do not consider Indiana to be an especially generous state when it comes to teachers salaries or pensions. However, the state is in pretty good financial shape, perhaps because it is frugal.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,543 posts, read 6,819,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
In California the main goal of all teachers starting in kindergarten on up is to indoctrinate students into reliable lifetime Democrat party voters.
This is a ridiculous claim. It's clear that you are anti-union, anti-labor and anti-government. It wouldn't matter if a public pension fund is well managed or not. If it involved a public employee, a union, and the government you'd be against it. The supporters of our current president claim he is a self-made business man and that is what was needed to run our country. The fact of the matter is that his wealth intricately involved dealing with and taking advantage of numerous government-backed programs to amass his wealth. In essence, my money, indirectly fueled his wealth and relieved him of the liabilities he had discharged in bankruptcy. So private or public we are all paying for someone else's pension, liabilities, asset appreciation, market gains/losses, etc. If you don't think so move to Libertarianville, a place that doesn't exist anywhere on the planet.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,555 posts, read 60,795,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Non-teaching staff (bloat) keeps growing. We had plenty of administrators as a percentage of total enrollment 30 years ago, yet bloat increases.



Moreover, that increase in bloat has not led to any measureable improvement in student achievement.

Did you ever consider that the reason we haven't seen an increase in student achievement (which is arguably incorrect) is that 1/2 the population is below the median IQ? Maybe we're at the best that can be attained.


Every single "education reform" initiative adopted over the last 30 years, every single one, has been aimed at bringing up that lower half. That's one of the reasons for the increase in administrative numbers.


My former school system required that each high school have locked staff positions for an Instructional Specialist, a Test Coordinator, various Department Coordinators as well a staff member dedicated to compliance issues for SPED. All aimed at that bottom 1/2.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,543 posts, read 6,819,636 times
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Did you ever consider that the reason we haven't seen an increase in student achievement (which is arguably incorrect) is that 1/2 the population is below the median IQ? Maybe we're at the best that can be attained.


Every single "education reform" initiative adopted over the last 30 years, every single one, has been aimed at bringing up that lower half. That's one of the reasons for the increase in administrative numbers.


My former school system required that each high school have locked staff positions for an Instructional Specialist, a Test Coordinator, various Department Coordinators as well a staff member dedicated to compliance issues for SPED. All aimed at that bottom 1/2.
I agree with you. This is the case in CT as well with schools trying to close the achievement gap. The testing movement has resulted in more economic isolation not less. Mixed economic districts have largely yielded to rising poverty as the affluent members moved to better-performing districts in neighboring communities. There are numerous reasons why these reforms do not work but it is better served as a discussion in the educational forum.

The pension problems are not the engineering of the teachers. I had no option to decide whether or not I would be paying into SS or the amount that I chose to contribute to my pension. It is all defined by law. I will be taking my reduced pension early against the advice of most people and going in a different direction. The winds of society are changing and the nation appears to be in favor of letting oligarchs rule and decide what is best for the masses. History shows that doesn't usually work out so well.
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:31 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,555 posts, read 60,795,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
I agree with you. This is the case in CT as well with schools trying to close the achievement gap. The testing movement has resulted in more economic isolation not less. Mixed economic districts have largely yielded to rising poverty as the affluent members moved to better-performing districts in neighboring communities. There are numerous reasons why these reforms do not work but it is better served as a discussion in the educational forum.

The pension problems are not the engineering of the teachers. I had no option to decide whether or not I would be paying into SS or the amount that I chose to contribute to my pension. It is all defined by law. I will be taking my reduced pension early against the advice of most people and going in a different direction. The winds of society are changing and the nation appears to be in favor of letting oligarchs rule and decide what is best for the masses. History shows that doesn't usually work out so well.


I was much the same. Social Security is, well, Social Security. In my time (30+ years) as a teacher the pension system was "reformed" twice with the results being future retirees qualifying for less benefit while working longer and contributing more. The last "reform" increased our contribution by 40% (5% to 7%) with the increase not going into the pension system, which is a stand alone fund, but the state's General Fund.


While the pension does provide for COLAs they aren't tied to the CPI but to the performance of the pension system investments.
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Old 04-01-2017, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Center City
7,529 posts, read 10,282,027 times
Reputation: 11023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
This is a ridiculous claim. It's clear that you are anti-union, anti-labor and anti-government. It wouldn't matter if a public pension fund is well managed or not. If it involved a public employee, a union, and the government you'd be against it. The supporters of our current president claim he is a self-made business man and that is what was needed to run our country. The fact of the matter is that his wealth intricately involved dealing with and taking advantage of numerous government-backed programs to amass his wealth. In essence, my money, indirectly fueled his [Trump's] wealth and relieved him of the liabilities he had discharged in bankruptcy. So private or public we are all paying for someone else's pension, liabilities, asset appreciation, market gains/losses, etc. If you don't think so move to Libertarianville, a place that doesn't exist anywhere on the planet.
True. Remember when our tax dollars from the financial bailout went to bonuses to the same executives who pulled us into that mess? Instead of being outraged at that, I am amazed at the people who choose to vent their anger at teachers. They are being played at every turn.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:30 PM
 
2,499 posts, read 2,632,527 times
Reputation: 1789
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Non-teaching staff (bloat) keeps growing. We had plenty of administrators as a percentage of total enrollment 30 years ago, yet bloat increases.



Moreover, that increase in bloat has not led to any measureable improvement in student achievement.

The trends in education costs started increasing when educated women were not limited to becoming teachers or nurses.
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