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No not at all. Not a golden rule but a guideline for some. In fact retired public pensioners are often a better credit risk than other retirees and quite possibly are in the best credit status of their life. I am not being specific to the sister being discussed because there are to many unknowns.
A combined pension and SS is a much more stable source of income than a job is. Millions lose their job and are unable to pay their debts but how many folks in comparison have lost their pension and SS?
Depending on sources of income and availablle portfolio funds a six figure debt amount could be minimal if in a mortgage especially at the lower fixed interest rates of late. For retirees, like working folks debt/income ratio is all important as is credit score. If the lady in this case has a 60K income and SS coming in soon and a portfolio of 500K that debt level is not the same as it might be for someone with more or less resources.
Retirement financial life can be the same for working retirement life if not better. No kids, no college to pay for etc etc etc.
Valid points but I would rather have NO debt in retirement.
Without getting too political, a lot of resentment comes in when people who make similar to what a teacher does are unable to receive anywhere near the income from their own private savings, with strong contributions, normal growth, and safe withdrawal rates, as a teacher's defined benefit pension plan.
Yes, many teachers do contribute to their pension, but let's say a teacher contributes 8% and a private sector worker 15% to their retirement plans, on average, during their career. Assume their salaries track along the same path. How's the private sector retire worker supposed to feel when he retires, has contributed more of his own money (less money to spend than they teacher net of tax/retirement savings), takes in less per month in retirement, and is still faced with the potential of exhausting it, and the teacher is likely receiving more monthly income from their defined benefit pension, contributed less of his own money, and is essentially inexhaustible for any one individual? That's where the resentment comes in.
Another key point is that in areas with unhealthy economies, like where I am, many new college graduates working in the private sector, even in traditionally higher paying fields than teaching, will often earn less than a new teacher. My city starts a fresh BS in education at $41,000 annually. If you have a master's, in an in-demand specialty like math, science, or SPED, it will be higher. The Fortune 500 in my town were starting chemical/electrical engineers from schools like Virginia Tech in the mid $30k range four years ago. A friend of mine who was a contract software engineer at this same company was earning in the upper $30k range. These engineers had far fewer benefits and less job stability than local teachers. Aside from higher level medical employees, teaching is about the most lucrative field in this area for a twentysomething out of college.
I have a good friend who is a county high school science teacher in a nearby poor, rural county with a master's. I make about $10,000 more than him with no master's, but I have no pension, worse medical benefits, far worse time off (after you count the six major holidays plus Black Friday and day before NY weekend I have to take out of my own PTO, I have 13 PTO days for sick/vacation time), etc., than local educators. He's been there five years and is now tenured. I could be fired at any time without or with notice, for any reason or no reason, as long as the reason is not an illegal reason - that's not happening to him. If he worked in the city closest to him, which is widely regarded as the nicest in upper east TN, he'd be earning very close to what I do.
Whether or not teachers are paid and compensated "enough" misses the mark, which is they are often paid and compensated better (including their pension) that many private sector workers with a similar level of education and experience, especially those in areas where the economy is not doing well.
Without getting too political, a lot of resentment comes in when people who make similar to what a teacher does are unable to receive anywhere near the income from their own private savings, with strong contributions, normal growth, and safe withdrawal rates, as a teacher's defined benefit pension plan.
Perhaps they should have become teachers. Unless they are indentured, they are responsible for their choices and the consequences of them.
Teachers have one of the most critical roles in our country - educating each generation of young people and instilling them with the skills and drive required when it comes their time to run our nation. I don't buy into any argument that the compensation for this work is too generous. Alternatively, I think we are getting somewhat of a bargain.
Perhaps they should have become teachers. Unless they are indentured, they are responsible for their choices and the consequences of them.
Teachers have one of the most critical roles in our country - educating each generation of young people and instilling them with the skills and drive required when it comes their time to run our nation. I don't buy into any argument that the compensation for this work is too generous. Alternatively, I think we are getting somewhat of a bargain.
No one is saying the job isn't important, but there are many jobs in the private sector that are also very important, require similar amounts of education, are compensated worse than a teacher, and that's in straight salary, not considering the pension.
A friend of mine is a case manager with a health organization for the mentally ill and addicted - basically, social service worker in the private sector. I don't know what he makes, but per Glassdoor, this job pays under $30,000 in this area. Of course, the benefits are not as good as in the public sector, nor does his employer offer a pension. This is meaningful, needed work, but IMO, is also poorly compensated and the staff neglected. He is also an unpaid pastor - dealing with other people's problems day and night, I simply don't know how he keeps his sanity.
The issue isn't necessarily whether teachers are compensated too much or too little, but that there is often a substantial difference in wages, working conditions, and benefits that people end up resenting between private sector workers and government employees in similar fields, including, but not limited to, teachers.
I hear what your saying on the resentment factor of private vs public govt workers.
I see it as a sell out. I sold out my dreams for becoming a public sector worker. If life were nothing more than being about money, then yes the resentment is valid. But there is more to life than money, working in fields that are important but simply make less. Or like your friend, the unpaid pastor. Some things we as people do because we love it.
No one is saying the job isn't important, but there are many jobs in the private sector that are also very important, require similar amounts of education, are compensated worse than a teacher, and that's in straight salary, not considering the pension.
A friend of mine is a case manager with a health organization for the mentally ill and addicted - basically, social service worker in the private sector. I don't know what he makes, but per Glassdoor, this job pays under $30,000 in this area. Of course, the benefits are not as good as in the public sector, nor does his employer offer a pension. This is meaningful, needed work, but IMO, is also poorly compensated and the staff neglected. He is also an unpaid pastor - dealing with other people's problems day and night, I simply don't know how he keeps his sanity.
The issue isn't necessarily whether teachers are compensated too much or too little, but that there is often a substantial difference in wages, working conditions, and benefits that people end up resenting between private sector workers and government employees in similar fields, including, but not limited to, teachers.
Isn't this a discussion folks should be having very early in their life as they start out on a career path? They still have choices then and will be hopefully making informed decisions about what to do with their life. Having it now after the fact is sorta would of, could of and didn't of. Now in the retirement forum we are laying out to the world the consequences of our youthful decisions. That can make it sound like sour grapes and not thoughtful and purposeful life choices.
Wait, breaking news. Many of us did have these conversations 40 plus years ago and now we have all these chickens running around coming back to roost.
Isn't this a discussion folks should be having very early in their life as they start out on a career path? They still have choices then and will be hopefully making informed decisions about what to do with their life. Having it now after the fact is sorta would of, could of and didn't of. Now in the retirement forum we are laying out to the world the consequences of our youthful decisions. That can make it sound like sour grapes and not thoughtful and purposeful life choices.
Wait, breaking news. Many of us did have these conversations 40 plus years ago and now we have all these chickens running around coming back to roost.
Should they be having this discussion? Ideally, yes. Is it practical or do many people actually have this discussion at age 18-22? Not many.
I grew up with people who wanted to be teachers from a very early age, many from middle school on. They became teachers because they wanted to teach, not because of the associated benefits. I don't think most people even have a holistic concept of benefits between the private and public sectors until they start working or investigate these issues on their own. I was an economics major and really didn't consider these types of issues until my early-mid 20s. The general person on the street is clueless or nearly so about these types of issues. Most families, at least in my undereducated, poor area, don't have anyone with the expertise in these types of issues to responsibly guide a younger person.
For many young people, colleges often provide misleading information in order to increase their own revenue or bolster enrollment counts in certain programs. If 90% of last year's sociology major cohort is involuntarily working out of field with a median salary of $24,000 annually, do you think university guidance counselors and professors are going to be willing to share this information? Absolutely not. When I was in business school, the department would print out long lists of job postings and place them in the lobby. That made it seem like tons of good jobs for graduates were available. In hindsight, it was probably just a dump out of some job aggregator like Indeed. Were they outright lying? No, but it was certainly misleading.
These things are also a moving target. What might have seemed like a wise decision at some point in the past may look incredibly stupid later. Finance was a hot major in 2004, but we all know what happened by 2008 when that enrollment cohort graduated. New graduates going into public sector positions in NJ/IL etc., may seem wise now, but what if those governments go bust before this cohort retires and pensioners take a hair cut or get left out in the cold altogether? We can make educated guesses, but there are no guarantees.
There is only so much one can reasonably expect to do. Do I think there needs to be more "front end" research? Absolutely, but career coaches and guidance counselors are often out of touch, incompetent, or have their own agendas, and many students and young people do not have competent or experienced familiar members to provide career advice.
No one is saying the job isn't important, but there are many jobs in the private sector that are also very important, require similar amounts of education, are compensated worse than a teacher, and that's in straight salary, not considering the pension.
A friend of mine is a case manager with a health organization for the mentally ill and addicted - basically, social service worker in the private sector. I don't know what he makes, but per Glassdoor, this job pays under $30,000 in this area. Of course, the benefits are not as good as in the public sector, nor does his employer offer a pension. This is meaningful, needed work, but IMO, is also poorly compensated and the staff neglected. He is also an unpaid pastor - dealing with other people's problems day and night, I simply don't know how he keeps his sanity.
The issue isn't necessarily whether teachers are compensated too much or too little, but that there is often a substantial difference in wages, working conditions, and benefits that people end up resenting between private sector workers and government employees in similar fields, including, but not limited to, teachers.
Your friend, along with those unnamed others (you?) who resent that teachers make more than them made choices in their careers, didn't they? The salaries of different fields of work are set by the value our capitalist market-driven economy places on their contribution. Unless you are suggesting that we move more closely to a socialist economy, the only resentment people have of teachers should be on the choices they made in selecting their own career fields.
Your friend, along with those unnamed others (you?) who resent that teachers make more than them made choices in their careers, didn't they? The salaries of different fields of work are set by the value our capitalist market-driven economy places on their contribution. Unless you are suggesting that we move more closely to a socialist economy, the only resentment people have of teachers should be on the choices they made in selecting their own career fields.
Most people don't go into teaching "for the money" or the gravy train of benefits. I doubt education schools have people giving breakdowns on pension schemes and the like to new students.
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