Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-13-2013, 07:24 PM
 
157 posts, read 309,823 times
Reputation: 301

Advertisements

I am still growing into the idea of being middle aged. I lived the life of a teenager for the first 35 years of life, then bam, I turned around and now see that I am considered middle aged. It all happened so quickly.

So, it was a nice warm evening here and I just returned from dinner with a friend. We sat an outside table. I kept hearing all these youthful voices around the street corner while we ate and I couldn't figure out what was going on. Suddenly, they appeared. A large group of kids, looking about 14 or 15 years old, laughing and parading, very self-conscious about their walk, clothing, hair, etc. - I could tell by the way they carried themselves.

I had a thought at that moment - I live in a society (USA) that glorifies the beauty and enthusiasm of youth, but devalues the wisdom and grace of the aged...and yet I would not trade places with them. The stress, pressure and urgent feelings of wanting to be accepted as part of a group and wanting to be found worthy and desirable and trendy - what angst! So glad to be done with it!

There is so much more peace to be found now, in this phase of life.

But I wonder, do we mostly only see this in the U.S.? I hear that other parts of the world are kinder to the aging person - but where are these places?

C
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-13-2013, 07:47 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,489,025 times
Reputation: 29337
Default Dancing Into Old Age


Life on a Greek island, where Daniel Klein found people practicing the art of growing old.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Daniel Klein follows philosopher Epicurus to Greece to follow his advice on aging
Epicurus said the communion of friendship, enjoyed unhurriedly, was the best possession
In Greece, Klein finds older people living calmly, slowly, with appreciation and acceptance
Play has intimations of the divine, Klein believes, and he saw that in a dance in a tavern

Editor's note: Daniel Klein is the co-author, with Thomas Cathcart, of the international best-seller, "Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar." A graduate of Harvard in philosophy, his most recent book is "Travels with Epicurus."

(CNN) -- As I coast into old age, no philosopher speaks more meaningfully to me than that ancient Greek, Epicurus. For starters, there is his delicious dictum:

"It is not the young man who should be considered fortunate but the old man who has lived well, because the young man in his prime wanders much by chance, vacillating in his beliefs, while the old man has docked in the harbor, having safeguarded his true happiness."

I reread that lovely maxim recently while sitting on a taverna terrace on the Greek island of Hydra, a place where I have spent months at a time over the years. This time I was on the island to think about my new stage of life and what it might offer. One of my suitcases was packed with books by my favorite philosophers.

At a table near mine, I saw my old friend, Tasso, a man about my age who is a retired judge. Tasso was playing cards with three friends, also white-haired, and from the ease of their chatter and laughter, I knew I had come to the right place to learn how to live an old age that both Epicurus and I would approve of.

Above all, such an old age would fully embrace friendship and playfulness. Epicurus wrote, "Of all the things that wisdom provides to help one live one's entire life in happiness, the greatest by far is the possession of friendship." But even more significantly for me at this time, he was convinced that we old folk have a unique opportunity to elevate companionship to its highest level. Epicurus believed that we oldsters no longer ever need to treat our fellows as means to an end and therefore we always can enjoy them as ends in themselves.

Defy your age: what truly helps you stay younger inside and out

In old age, we can be free from what the philosopher called, "the prison of everyday affairs and politics." Retired from business and striving, we no longer need to see other people as a way to close a deal or get a raise or obtain a contract. Having said goodbye to all that, we are left with pure camaraderie, the kind that Tasso and his fellows were contentedly enjoying.

Tasso wanted nothing more from his tablemate, Kostos, a retired fisherman, than to simply be with him -- to pass the time with him, to talk with him, even just to sit in silence with him as they both watched the sun settle onto the horizon in the Peloponnesian straits. Indeed, Epicurus believed that being together in silence was the highest form of personal communion. Clearly such communion did not come easily to us when we were still in that stage of life when we were hell bent on achieving goals.

For a long moment after the music's climax, they remained standing silently next to one another with upraised arms.

The idea of playfulness in old age also resonates with me. I was happily surprised to discover how many of the philosophers in my little portable library paid tribute to "play." In his popular essay, "In Praise of Idleness," the 20th century philosopher, Bertrand Russell, lamented modern man's loss of his capacity for play, seeing it as having been erased by the "cult of efficiency." But perhaps the philosopher who best understood the transcendental possibilities of play was Epicurus' forbear, Plato, who wrote: "Man is made God's plaything and that is the best part of him. ... What, then, is the right way of living? Life must be lived as play."

I found myself recalling the first time I saw old Greek men dancing. It was on a night in 1968, during my first long sojourn on Hydra. Outside the window of my hillside house, a full moon had set the whitewashed houses aglow and the unearthly light drew me out of my room and down to the coastal walkway for a dreamy ramble. It was utterly quiet except for an occasional donkey bray and rooster crow.

Aging stylishly, online and in the streets

Then I heard music coming from the direction of the main port, at first only the stuttering beat of bass notes, then, as I walked toward the music, the Turkic twang of a bouzouki. I followed the sound to a taverna called Loulou's. By then I recognized the music; it was a classic song by Mikis Theodorakis, whose music at the time was prohibited by the ruling dictatorship because of his antifascist activities. The doors to Loulou's were locked shut, but one of the windows was open. I peered inside.

Five old men were dancing side by side, connected one to the other by handkerchiefs held in their raised hands. Their craggy faces were tilted upward with what struck me as pride, defiance, and, above all, exultation. All of them were straining to keep their backs erect, though none fully succeeded, yet their legs executed the dance's sideward steps in perfect, graceful synchrony. When, toward the end of the song, the music gradually accelerated, their steps accelerated along with it. For a long moment after the music's crescendo climax, they remained standing silently next to one another with upraised arms.

What I had witnessed, quite simply, was a dance to life and to its consummate fulfillment in old age. This was play at its most exalted.

I fully understood what Plato meant when he wrote that pure play has intimations of the divine. And now, in my old age, I feel I am finally ready to play and dance with well-earned abandon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 08:34 PM
 
4,423 posts, read 7,370,302 times
Reputation: 10940
I'm still getting used to the fact that I'm invisible to the younger population. I'm just the proverbial little old lady and I'm only 63. Where are these places that revere their elders? Italy. I was there a few years ago and I was oggled as if I was a hot mama. I saw no nursing homes. The younger generations make room for their aging family members.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 09:41 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,877,697 times
Reputation: 18304
I have never understood people feeling invisible .I think perhaps they expect too much of modern secular society. Its cultural and that varies greatly by region and location in US;IMO.in more traditional society that preserve their culture like Japan this is not true as it isn't in many regions that have held to their cultural traditions more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-13-2013, 10:17 PM
 
350 posts, read 710,026 times
Reputation: 502
When you turn 50 you transition from the old age of youth to the youth of old age.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2013, 05:39 AM
 
4,423 posts, read 7,370,302 times
Reputation: 10940
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I have never understood people feeling invisible .I think perhaps they expect too much of modern secular society. Its cultural and that varies greatly by region and location in US;IMO.in more traditional society that preserve their culture like Japan this is not true as it isn't in many regions that have held to their cultural traditions more.
I have never understood people who don't allow (and respect) other peoples' feelings. If we all observed life as you see it, what a boring mass of people we'd be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2013, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 31,092,767 times
Reputation: 42988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I fully understood what Plato meant when he wrote that pure play has intimations of the divine. And now, in my old age, I feel I am finally ready to play and dance with well-earned abandon.
I like this sentiment. Like it a lot, in fact. Might just print it out and stick it on the refrigerator.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,977,255 times
Reputation: 15773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipoetry View Post
I'm still getting used to the fact that I'm invisible to the younger population. I'm just the proverbial little old lady and I'm only 63. Where are these places that revere their elders? Italy. I was there a few years ago and I was oggled as if I was a hot mama. I saw no nursing homes. The younger generations make room for their aging family members.
I agree with that! And the Italian view of women's beauty at any age. When I was there, I saw women in their 70s and 80s dressed up and meeting in cafés chatting it up with younger adults. I was told by a German in perhaps his 40s that I am a "beautiful woman" (here I am not), and everywhere we went we saw intergenerational interactions. Maybe I'm just romanticizing, but I'd rather grow really old in one of these cultures. Being old is then just part of a continuum of the outer body, not seen as a person-changer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2013, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Edina, MN, USA
7,572 posts, read 9,022,739 times
Reputation: 17937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina65 View Post
I am still growing into the idea of being middle aged. I lived the life of a teenager for the first 35 years of life, then bam, I turned around and now see that I am considered middle aged. It all happened so quickly.

So, it was a nice warm evening here and I just returned from dinner with a friend. We sat an outside table. I kept hearing all these youthful voices around the street corner while we ate and I couldn't figure out what was going on. Suddenly, they appeared. A large group of kids, looking about 14 or 15 years old, laughing and parading, very self-conscious about their walk, clothing, hair, etc. - I could tell by the way they carried themselves.

I had a thought at that moment - I live in a society (USA) that glorifies the beauty and enthusiasm of youth, but devalues the wisdom and grace of the aged...and yet I would not trade places with them. The stress, pressure and urgent feelings of wanting to be accepted as part of a group and wanting to be found worthy and desirable and trendy - what angst! So glad to be done with it!

There is so much more peace to be found now, in this phase of life.

But I wonder, do we mostly only see this in the U.S.? I hear that other parts of the world are kinder to the aging person - but where are these places?

C
Well said. I did the same thing as I have highlighted - I never thought about age as it was always just a number and one I rarely thought about. Then it all happened so fast - lost a parent, retired from my job, lost a good friend and suddenly I had to grow up. But, I will not go gently and without a fight
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2013, 07:16 AM
 
31,683 posts, read 41,050,316 times
Reputation: 14434
There is another side to the coin and that is young folks being jealous of the position we have reached in life and wanting to be there also. We often have younger folks coming in the forum resenting the comfort and leisure world of many retired folks. I have always found life to be so much better when I drive in my own lane and focus more on my road ahead and avoid the distraction of those who would like to see me go off the road. Let the young'uns enjoy their young days and hopefully they are also preparing for their future years as well. One of the great parts of retirement is being there and not worrying about when and if we will ever get there. That is our blessing once we have aged and gotten there. Like Curmudgeon said it is now our time to dance and play. Not the young'uns on the beach weekdays now tis us more on the senior side. They are at work!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Retirement
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:00 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top