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And the other side of that is a lot of us who have more of a planner's mindset are ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY FRUSTRATED with people in our lives who simply WOULD NOT make the effort to save and plan. I have TALKED AND TALKED AND WHEEDLED AND CAJOLED UNTIL I WAS BLUE IN THE FACE WITH SO MANY PEOPLE I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU. Sorry, but I think those people outnumber the people who did most things right (no one does everything right, after all), and ended up impoverished or semi-impoverished in old age.
What often is interpreted as the saver/planner people being judgemental is, at least some of the time, just sheer frustration at trying to help people who refused our help at every turn. Kind of like trying to help an alcoholic or drug addict who doesn't want the help.
How much do you expect people to save on $10K-$15K a year?
Well, according to many posters, I certainly do not have enough to retire on.
I'm retiring this December. I'll be 64. I should have about $50k in a savings account, plus about $20k to live on before I apply for SS at age 66.
Is that enough? Probably not. I do own my home and a newer car outright.
Do I care what others think? Hell, no. Telling me what I *should have done* 40 years ago is no help at all. Can't go back and change it. I feel no shame. I feel no guilt.
The posters who always bring up *bad decision making* do not affect me in any way. I have made my life; you don't know me; and there is nothing to be done about it anyway.
I grew up poor and have been relatively poor for most of my life. What I have now is a blessing compared to earlier years.
It's not as much as others have, but it's mine, and I am quite happy to be in the position I find myself in.
To answer the OP's question: I feel that people who cannot afford to retire just don't want to read about people who CAN. It could make them feel inadequate, or make them depressed. I remember being a kid and at times being so hungry I would look at pictures of food in magazines! It didn't help my hunger, though, just made me feel more deprived. Maybe that's how people who cannot afford to retire feel, reading this forum.
I certainly wouldn't presume to tell someone else how much money he/she must have in order to retire. As has been said so often, it depends on the person and their ability and determination to live within the resources available to them. Basically, if you feel as though you're ready for retirement and can manage whatever assets you have to meet your needs and enjoy your life in retirement, then go for it! The only thing I would say, but you know this already, and that's the idea that having as little debt as possible sure makes those resources go further.
You must just be missing them. I've posted that I'm on SSI and retired on a very limited income. I am in a subsidized senior apartment that is a very tiny studio. I have Medi-Cal, and have a great dog, and moved to the northern-most town on the coast of CA, where it is very affordable, and I can now walk to the ocean, and drive to the redwood forest just 7 miles away.
I can't afford to go out to eat, or travel. But, I don't need to. The trick is to get over not being able to have the retirement of your dreams. Once I accepted the limits of my budget, I'm actually quite happy with what I have. And I think it's important for seniors to know that there is a lot of subsidized senior housing out there, and my experience so far in two senior subsidized apartment buildings in two different lower COL towns in CA, is that they are very well-maintained and safe. They are inspected by the government agencies that fund them, and they make sure we're in a safe and well-maintained place.
If you get on the waiting lists, eventually you will get called. You might not be able to live in the city of your dreams, because of the COL or length of the waiting lists. But, if you can get over that, too (I originally hoped to live in the SF Bay Area, but couldn't make that work), and you're flexible, you can find somewhere nice. It turns out I love it here, where I finally ended up. And I'm already making friends.
I became disabled, so retired early. But, if people want to retire early, and they can change their idea of how much is enough, they can do it. It's hard to let go of a vision of retirement you've had for many years.
At any rate, poor retirees can be happy, too. You just need to accept what you can't change and change the things you can, and once you get the best situation you can, be happy with what you've got.
You see, I'm pretty broke, but I can choose every day whether to walk my dog by the ocean or in the redwood forest. Today we walked by the ocean. I also took some stuff to sell at the flea market and chatted with interesting people all day, and sold home-made muffins and some other junk I had. Came home and took the dog for a walk by the ocean and chatted with some cute kids who were collecting shells.
I consider myself to be lucky, now. But, I had to let go of being able to live near my daughter in the SF Bay Area. You don't get to have everything you want, but you can still have it pretty good.
When anyone typically posts anything about having enough to retire on, it appears everyone on this board has enough, whether through pensions, double social security checks or larger portfolios. Yet statistically, many more people do not have enough to retire.
So how is it we never hear from them? Does the subject matter of this forum "Retirement" only attract people who are in a position to retire? Are there not people on here who would like to retire, but feel they can't? Are they afraid to speak up, or are they just not interested in the subject matter so they never come on this forum?
I'm not convinced that I have enough to retire. You're hearing from me. I live without debt, but retirement could change that. A big inheritance would solve everything.
Happily retired people that I know are not hanging out on the internet ... they're cross country skiing, volunteering at construction projects, oil painting, some travel, tinkering with car engines ... basically 55+ years old, busy doing stuff they love to do while they are able ... happy for yet another day away from the office while the bank account is topped up.
I agree, and be clear, mathjak, I've seen you around City-Data enough to know that you're not a "let-em-eat-cake" kind of jerk. I'm not looking to argue with you. Besides, while I'll never reach your level of wealth, I'm exceedingly superior to you in terms of spelling and punctuation, so you can't make me feel inferior anyway.
I think there are a couple of conversations going on here, and ne'er the twain shall meet. The bulk of the people that the OP is addressing are silent because no matter what wonderful solutions and products are out there for so many others, none of them are applicable to their situation, because, get this--they don't have any frickin' spare money. They might even be deeply in debt, as I am, and they may not have the resources for a viable plan to get out of debt in a reasonable number of years, as I do.
Don't take this personally, because it's not meant that way, but someone like you probably has no place in a conversation with people who need to know how to survive retirement on nothing, like the "shoestring" thread people, or others who might be able to get there but who want to bounce ideas off of people. Investments aren't going to work for many of us because we have no spare money. We need ideas as to post-retirement career possibilities or reducing debt strategies. You just cannot relate.
In another post, you dismissed these people as the ones who will never be able to retire. Well, that's not quite true. They HAVE to retire eventually. They will be too old to get hired or have medical issues that will prevent them from working.
I'd mentioned in an earlier post that I would like to start a thread for the people who don't know how they are going to survive in retirement, or who face real obstacles in getting to the place where they can retire. People's whose solutions are not going to involve returns on investments or long-term-care financial products, because they have no investments and they have no money to buy any sort of insurance for the future. Those people need advice, too, but from others who are in survival mode, not from people who are comfortable.
I'll give you an example. I have a friend in my condo complex. She is 74 years old. She has some health problems but functions pretty well. She was a SAHM widowed in her mid-forties left with three kids. She worked as a CNA and a bookkeeper and some other jobs. Social Security is all she gets, and it barely covers the mortgage on her condo that she bought 15 years ago on a short sale.
So how does she survive? She takes advantage of whatever programs are available to her; for example, she gets help with her heating bill from a state program for impoverished seniors, she gets a tax rebate from another state program for seniors below a certain income level, and she goes out five mornings a week and helps an octogenarian bathe and dress his wife, who has dementia, for which he pays her about $200 a week cash. She just started working two evenings a week for him, too, because his daughter who normally helped at night had other family obligations.
This is how people survive. Someone might want to know what someone like my friend does because maybe they are in a similar position. And the whole point of the OP is that THESE people are out there, in droves, but they might not feel comfortable posting in the Retirement forum because so much of the conversation centers around investments and financial strategies that are completely irrelevant to them.
Excellent post and description of the issues at hand. Lots of people MUST retire without sufficient funds. If someone hasn't learned the art of being frugal, it's never too late. I've only started learning the last few years, as I need to preserve what I have. There are things that people can do to stretch that dollar as far as it will go (within reason of course). Besides learning ways to save money, people can also find ways to subsidize their social security check.
I met an older lady a few years back in Florida at a thrift store. She was in front of me in line and had some books in her hand. We got talking and she told me how excited she was that day because she really hit the jackpot. She explained to me she was retired and had to supplement her social security income and has gotten involved in buying used books that bring in a real premium.
She told me she did a lot of research and taught herself about this. She showed me two of the books and told me how one of them would fetch about $100 online. She says she also buys vintage items when she can find them and also sells them. She told me how she has many books to help her learn about the value of different collectible items. I don't think she was making a killing at this, but she seemed to enjoy it, and it was providing her with the supplemental income she needed.
It's stories like this that people retiring with limited funds need to hear. Because it's not over till it's over.
I agree, and be clear, mathjak, I've seen you around City-Data enough to know that you're not a "let-em-eat-cake" kind of jerk. I'm not looking to argue with you. Besides, while I'll never reach your level of wealth, I'm exceedingly superior to you in terms of spelling and punctuation, so you can't make me feel inferior anyway.
I think there are a couple of conversations going on here, and ne'er the twain shall meet. The bulk of the people that the OP is addressing are silent because no matter what wonderful solutions and products are out there for so many others, none of them are applicable to their situation, because, get this--they don't have any frickin' spare money. They might even be deeply in debt, as I am, and they may not have the resources for a viable plan to get out of debt in a reasonable number of years, as I do.
Don't take this personally, because it's not meant that way, but someone like you probably has no place in a conversation with people who need to know how to survive retirement on nothing, like the "shoestring" thread people, or others who might be able to get there but who want to bounce ideas off of people. Investments aren't going to work for many of us because we have no spare money. We need ideas as to post-retirement career possibilities or reducing debt strategies. You just cannot relate.
In another post, you dismissed these people as the ones who will never be able to retire. Well, that's not quite true. They HAVE to retire eventually. They will be too old to get hired or have medical issues that will prevent them from working.
I'd mentioned in an earlier post that I would like to start a thread for the people who don't know how they are going to survive in retirement, or who face real obstacles in getting to the place where they can retire. People's whose solutions are not going to involve returns on investments or long-term-care financial products, because they have no investments and they have no money to buy any sort of insurance for the future. Those people need advice, too, but from others who are in survival mode, not from people who are comfortable.
I'll give you an example. I have a friend in my condo complex. She is 74 years old. She has some health problems but functions pretty well. She was a SAHM widowed in her mid-forties left with three kids. She worked as a CNA and a bookkeeper and some other jobs. Social Security is all she gets, and it barely covers the mortgage on her condo that she bought 15 years ago on a short sale.
So how does she survive? She takes advantage of whatever programs are available to her; for example, she gets help with her heating bill from a state program for impoverished seniors, she gets a tax rebate from another state program for seniors below a certain income level, and she goes out five mornings a week and helps an octogenarian bathe and dress his wife, who has dementia, for which he pays her about $200 a week cash. She just started working two evenings a week for him, too, because his daughter who normally helped at night had other family obligations.
This is how people survive. Someone might want to know what someone like my friend does because maybe they are in a similar position. And the whole point of the OP is that THESE people are out there, in droves, but they might not feel comfortable posting in the Retirement forum because so much of the conversation centers around investments and financial strategies that are completely irrelevant to them.
This was a very intelligent post. I just want to address the highlighed parts. I think my mission in life is to crack the whip on as many people as possible so we won't have droves of people in survival mode in old age in the fist place. This Catch-22 predicament doesn't need to occur nearly as often as it does.
I'm not convinced that I have enough to retire. You're hearing from me. I live without debt, but retirement could change that. A big inheritance would solve everything.
Happily retired people that I know are not hanging out on the internet ... they're cross country skiing, volunteering at construction projects, oil painting, some travel, tinkering with car engines ... basically 55+ years old, busy doing stuff they love to do while they are able ... happy for yet another day away from the office while the bank account is topped up.
Well, I'll wish some inheritance your way. But I have to disagree with the second part of your post. I agree that being able to do all the things you love is nice, and money sure helps. But what you seem to be referring to is being able to retire early enough to enjoy doing all the things you love. That is the ultimate retirement dream. But it is not a prerequisite for finding happiness in retirement, and even if you have to wait until your 66, you will still enjoy those things. Though you won't be climbing Mount Kilimanjaro.
It is my feeling that when you retire and you experience the need to conserve more than you might have liked, that you still find happiness in the small things in life. That first cup of coffee in the morning, especially if it's nice outside and you have a comfortable place to sit back and relax. Put on some music you enjoy or pick up a book by your favorite author. Your paint brush and easel will still be available for you.
Meeting some friends for a bagel or a glass of wine (or beer - you tinker with engines ). You can still volunteer. What's with the construction sites by the way? What do you voluntarily do at the construction site? And yes, hanging out on the internet can be fun too.
You will see what I mean about being able to enjoy retirement, as long as you are able to figure out how to pay your bills, you can be happier than you think. (unless your a grumpy Gus )
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