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You know, we moved from NJ to ME and had to pick a moving company. I only received bids from reputable, nationwide moving companies. I picked one and you and I have seen their trucks on the roads for decades.
While unloading in ME, I got into a discussion with the 2 guys. Their company, a number of years back changed the status of the driver/movers from employees to "independent contractors".
One guy was young, with 2 little kids. One guy was older- I would say in his 50's, but strong like a bull. Hefting those pieces of furniture onto his back and climbing up and down stairs to put it in various rooms.
Both guys were no longer declaring their income or at least paying into SS. The older guy was "on the books" for what he considered a good amount of years, and he thought he didn't have to contribute any more- or whatever rationale he gave himself, so when the company stopped paying in for him, he stopped as well.
The younger guy was clueless. Had no idea he should be paying into SS, and I have no idea how they deal with the 1099's the moving company gives them. Maybe they put it on the "miscellaneous income" line, or some other line on the 1040 where they don't pay SS. I have seen accountants do that numerous times.
My reaction, first, I was furious with the company. I had no idea these guys weren't employees. I have seen this trend in the U.S. of shifting all these employees to "independent contractors" at my job at SSA, but didn't realize it had come down to moving companies. It is one thing if the driver was an "owner/operator"- they are self employed. But, these guys, were under the thumb of the employer - the employer had the control- which is the test of whether you are an employee or not".
Second, I was upset with the guys- how their initial short term gain is at the detriment of their long term situation.
This job, with hours on the road, day after day, could result in death or disability in an instant. A car crash, falling down, having something fall on you etc. etc.
By being off the books- no workers comp, no health insurance, no SS disability or survivors benefits etc. etc.
Who ends up paying- the rest of us- by the kids getting welfare, if he dies, instead of a SS survivor benefit which would be too high for welfare. By us again, if he survives, getting Medicaid instead of employer based health care. By us again, if he survives and gets SSI (taxpayer funded disability) instead of payroll funded SS disability for him and his kids.
It just really upsets me. Because, I have seen the difference when a parent dies or becomes disabled, and the parent had paid into SS. Those survivors get a check every month that can pay for rent, food, clothes. I would have surviving parents weep at my desk- in gratitude, for the check their kids would be receiving.
And, I have seen the result for the working off the books- switch them over to the SSI rep- to take a claim for a lousy, fixed SSI benefit and send the mom to the welfare office for $64.00 a month for AFDC.
Thank your for the detailed rationale of how the taxpayers are impacted by people who manage (mostly illegally) to avoid paying taxes, and avoid paying into Social Security. This is what I was talking about earlier in the thread, but without the supporting details of a real-life example.
In this thread we have been discussing two essentially different situations: First, there is the occasional baby-sitting or mowing-someone's-yard kind of thing, and that is just trivia - not worth getting excited about. Then there is what your example illustrates: full-time work year after year after year where the lack of reporting hurts both the individual and the taxpayer.
Actually I'm not sure how the men in your example avoid paying the FICA taxes on their income, being that the IRS gets a copy of the 1099. If they file all, it seems to me putting the income on the wrong line ("miscellaneous") would not exempt them from the FICA taxes due on it. But then again, I am not a CPA.
If you really want to get upset... Medicaid fraud. Absolutely huge, megahuge. May as well throw in SSDI too.
Quite true. But why do you mention it, since it has nothing to do with this thread? It's like coming into a thread on frugal living and saying "Well, a single jet fighter plane costs hundreds of millions of dollars".
Quite true. But why do you mention it, since it has nothing to do with this thread? It's like coming into a thread on frugal living and saying "Well, a single jet fighter plane costs hundreds of millions of dollars".
I will probably need to work part time for awhile after retirement but am not interested
in starting a new career and will have health care. Wondering if I want a "real" job.
Wondering about if I take SS early about the 14,400 earnings cap.
Wondering about working for cash. Low pay I'm sure, but no taxes.
Anyone do this?
OP has health care. OP has paid into the system. How does most of the rant in this thread address the original questions?
I walked a dog the first year or two I was retired. I didn't need the money so I stashed it. It was a nice little cache when I finally spent it. I drove a neighbor to the grocery, doctor's appts, etc for awhile and she insisted on paying me. Both were paid in cash but neither brought my income up to requiring me to file a tax return. I get a form from SS every year to do the math to see if I need to file. I am not cheating anyone.
No One Here Is Talking about $100 a year, we are talking about the white trash who dont pay taxes or SS or anything else and are the first ones in line for Gov. Benefits.. I am TIRED OF THE CHEATERS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow
Lots of seniors work off the books. Babysitting, pet sitting, handyman, yardwork, pool service. Of course the government might feel differently but I have never thought this was a big deal. Probably won't even remember at tax time that I watched your ankle biter for 2 hours and you paid me $5. Added all together it wouldn't even be enough money to be required to file a return anyway. I don't feel at all guilty about that $5.
The government doesn't seem to care about all those corporations avoiding US taxes completely so I doubt they are really interested in my 50 cents.
I dont charge people who need a hand here and there.... I dont charge people I do something nice for.. I made my money I am retired .... I now have more time to be helpful to others than ever before.. and I dont need you to pay me.. I want you to pass it on pay it forward When YOU CAN!
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