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Neither sex seems to be interested in talking about anything but the listed topics, which don't interest me that much.
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My point wasn't that one sex is more interesting than the other. My point, which I probably didn't make all that well, is that people in a group have their interests. If you happen to be interested in other things, you will be out in the cold...not from their nastiness, but because they don't care about the same things you do.
IMO, the obvious solution is to find a group or people who share the same interest with you. I have belonged or participated in many single purpose groups (both online and in real life): computer, photography, videography, gardening, scuba diving, rowing and flying. My husband participates in some of my groups and hangs out in other groups of his interest (philosophy, biology, nature etc).
I have also found that unless you break away from 'general', 'mundane' talk about topics which you assume other person(s) are interested in, you don't know whether they share the same interests with you. Many people including myself are pretty guarded in sharing their personal interests, convictions until they can sense that the other persons are on the same or close wavelength. For example, I paid a home visit recently to a former colleague (who has terminal cancer). In his home setting and in personal conversation with him and his wife, I learned that we shared many similar interests (a love of '60s folk music, great admiration for Pete Seeger, love of nature, hiking, strong interest in environmental issues). I wished that I had this kind of personal talk with him years ago instead of confining to work, technical discussion and generalities on weather, sport, family etc. If I had, we would have been close personal friends.
I also remember being the "new girl" at work many years ago. I ate crow for a while to fit in and be "part of the group". They were sooo cliquey. And there was the obvious ringleader. They were always nice to me, but I was obviously not part of the "in" group. Then, 1 by 1 they left the job. They slowly either retired or unfortunately 1 got sick and left. The dynamics of the office changed. Now there were more and more new people and the original clique was all but history. But, boy, fitting in with a clique can be a challenge!!~
Recently, my 90-year old Dad moved into a retirement community. What convinced him was that a couple who lived there and were old friends of his (my Dad and the husband were co-workers in the late 50s!) told him to come check out the community and see if he liked it. He liked it and moved in. Because he knew this couple, who had made friends there, it helped my Dad ease into the community. I wonder if my Dad had moved in there without knowing anyone how things would have been for him. Complicating his efforts to make friends---he wears 2 hearing aids and despite that, still can't hear very well.
Anyway, we went to visit him recently and observed the overall dynamics of the place. I commented to my husband and daughter how it felt like being in high school again. You know---nicknames for certain people that were used behind their backs, lots of gossip about others.
The few days we spent hanging out with my Dad has me convinced---I don't want to live in an over 55 community. My husband and I are old enough to do so, should that be something we wanted. In fact, some of the residents in my Dad's place asked us if we were planning to move in. The answer is "no".
ETA: I guess I should never say never. Who knows what the future holds when it comes to one's own health...
Anyway, we went to visit him recently and observed the overall dynamics of the place. I commented to my husband and daughter how it felt like being in high school again. You know---nicknames for certain people that were used behind their backs, lots of gossip about others.
The few days we spent hanging out with my Dad has me convinced---I don't want to live in an over 55 community. My husband and I are old enough to do so, should that be something we wanted. In fact, some of the residents in my Dad's place asked us if we were planning to move in. The answer is "no".
ETA: I guess I should never say never. Who knows what the future holds when it comes to one's own health...
I would rather grow old and die in a cabin in the backwoods than be with a bunch of useless gossipers and backstabbers. You can avoid them "out in the world," but hard to do so in any defined community unless you ignore the cliques and just live there, going to the outside for activities. I don't think any social director can put a stop to backstabbers, gossipers and those who band together in superiority mode. And the more elderly you are, the harder it can become to defend against it. In her 40s, 50s, and 60s my dear MIL would have laughed off these kinds of people. In her 70s and 80s, alone and more frail, she just craved honest friendship. What a rude awakening to find herself in the midst of sharks. As of last contact, she has made one friend who is a regular person.
I would rather grow old and die in a cabin in the backwoods than be with a bunch of useless gossipers and backstabbers. You can avoid them "out in the world," but hard to do so in any defined community unless you ignore the cliques and just live there, going to the outside for activities. I don't think any social director can put a stop to backstabbers, gossipers and those who band together in superiority mode. And the more elderly you are, the harder it can become to defend against it. In her 40s, 50s, and 60s my dear MIL would have laughed off these kinds of people. In her 70s and 80s, alone and more frail, she just craved honest friendship. What a rude awakening to find herself in the midst of sharks. As of last contact, she has made one friend who is a regular person.
Excellent point!
It's very true that if you live in a defined community, you can't avoid the cliques. Plus for some of the residents who don't get around very well, it's hard to get away from it.
I've also noticed that many retirement communities aren't in walkable areas. One would either need a car or take a taxi to get somewhere. If someone can't drive anymore, it's very hard to get out and do something.
Where my Dad lives, there is a bus stop out front but I don't know where the bus goes. Plus, as my husband pointed out, there aren't many cultural opportunities anywhere nearby (museums or plays, for example).
Some people don't mind all that and do fine. However, for me, I want to be somewhere walkable with good public transportation and lots of activities.
I regularly visit the dog park near my home and have encountered what I think is a clique of seniors, all of whom live in the same senior community. I live somewhere else. I know these folks meet up there every night and they know each other's names and circumstances. Try as I may to break into this group just to make conversation while there, it never works. I guess I will forever be the "outsider" to them since I don't live where they do.
This is more common than you might think. When my 102 year old very social Mom went to an ALF, she was totally excluded from the group dining table and sat alone at all her meals in the saddest way. I just could not believe that these women (there were 5 or 6) would do that to my dear Mom. I think it hurt me more than her. I eventually found her a different living arrangement.
It seems these cliques are similar to the ones we all encountered in high school. The same mean girls are still mean, but are just a lot older now. Anyone moving to a senior community has to hope this will not happen to them.
The thought of a 102 year old woman being excluded and eating alone is absolutely heartbreaking. People can be incredibly cruel. I'm glad you found your mother a different living arrangement.
[SIZE=2]From an older thread on the same topic (cliques in Old people's communities) - citing an essay called "Why Nerds Are Unpopular." The essay concerns teenagers, yet many of the author's points are uncomfortably germane to the Old, as well.
"If life seems awful to kids, it's neither because hormones are turning you all into monsters (as your parents believe), nor because life actually is awful (as you believe). It's because the adults, who no longer have any economic use for you, have abandoned you to spend years cooped up together with nothing real to do. Any society of that type is awful to live in. You don't have to look any further to explain why teenage kids are unhappy."
It's very true that if you live in a defined community, you can't avoid the cliques. Plus for some of the residents who don't get around very well, it's hard to get away from it.
I've also noticed that many retirement communities aren't in walkable areas. One would either need a car or take a taxi to get somewhere. If someone can't drive anymore, it's very hard to get out and do something.
Where my Dad lives, there is a bus stop out front but I don't know where the bus goes. Plus, as my husband pointed out, there aren't many cultural opportunities anywhere nearby (museums or plays, for example).
Some people don't mind all that and do fine. However, for me, I want to be somewhere walkable with good public transportation and lots of activities.
I think what is being described here is a facility for those who need assistance or an apt type 55+, which I would avoid at all costs myself. We live in Sun City the original Del Webb development in AZ. We have a detached home on a large lot. We avoid all cliques very easily as we no long participate in the clubs on a regular basis. The cliques do exist, very nasty ones indeed, but we are not bothered by them or our neighbors who mingle amongst their friends. There were cliques in the family community we left 4 years ago and I think it is just a part of our society.
A lot of us never get beyond our high school social interactions despite our so called maturity.
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