Is Social Security pro-rated between birthdays? (pension, federal, graduated, friends)
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Simultaneously posting. So in the Janice example. She's "lost" 3x60=$180. However, those have always been the rules, so she didn't lose it really. It SEEMS she should be entitled to it, but the reality is, the 8% rate increase takes that in to account, and is why percentages after FRA are all calculated on the FRA amount going forward. There are many many "maximise my SS" we sites that discuss this very thing. Just google "when are Delayed Retirement Credits applied". A bunch pop up instantly. It seems wrong because DRCs are earned monthly, but applied yearly. It's not much different than someone whis birthday is the 2nd of the month having to wait almost an entire month more than someone who's birthday is the last day of the same month.
As far as worst loss, that may be right, but its spliting hairs. In my example. Losing it for one month results in (10/12) x 8%/yr DRC x 1 month = .067 or 6.7% of the total yearly increase. In a one months DRC lost for 11 months, it is (1/12) x 8%/yr DRC X 11 months = .073 or 7.3%. Big whoop, just enjoy the guaranteed raise in Jan, that you would get regardless of a COLA increase or not !!
My bday is early Feb, so a Jan filing is perfect for me.
hypothetically if someone was going to take it feb but took it the following january instead of feb you not only got those drc credits applied going forward but you captured the drc on all the checks without anyone of them being less than your full with drc credit's applied . giving up 7.3% in drc credit that you cannot recover is almost a whole years delaying so it is substantial.
of course the question is do you want to wait almost another year to collect.
the fact you earned that 7.3% increase should have nothing to do with the fact you earned those credits by delaying . if you were pre fra and filing you would get every penny due you the minute you filed , so i don't buy in to that reasoning . you earned those credits already so every check after that should by right reflect those credits just as they do pre fra .
this is no different , yet they make it different .
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-26-2016 at 12:40 PM..
mathjak107, AnyPIA (SSA Calculator) awards the 8% in January of the following year as you have been explaining. The only exception according to the calculator is when the claim is made at age 70. Then it awards the last increment (Jan through birthday month) at whatever time of year the birthday falls. So the first benefit payment at age 70 has the full 1.32 factor.
So, as you said, if your birthday were, say, July 10, 1948 and you claimed in July 2014 at FRA, the factor is 1.0. So the benefit is 1.0*(FRA benefit). If you waited until October (a quarter of a year after FRA) to claim, the benefit initially is 1.0*(FRA benefit). It is this amount until January 01, 2015 (the year after FRA) when the 3 months (a quarter of a year) from the year before are applied and the factor becomes 1.020 (a quarter of 8%).
I've never seen someone who made a claim in the middle of the FRA-70 period join these conversations and share the actual experience but the calculator says you wait until January for all deferred years except the last one when you turn 70.
But I do have a motive for interrupting your conversation only to agree and not add. While I was gathering data I decided to have the calculator show the survivor benefit as including the delay but I could find no way in survivor mode of telling the calculator that the dead spouse had delayed collecting benefits so, no matter what I tried, the aged widower benefit always maintained a 1.00 factor. Do you know what I am doing wrong. If the now dead spouse never filed and died on his 70th birthday, shouldn't the aged widow factor be 1.32?
i would doubt anyone who did run in to this by filing mid year after fra would realize they do not get the credits retro .
all they would know is come january their benefit would match the amount of the delayed credits they earned over the course of the year ..
the fact they did not get those credits on the checks they already got and were not reimbursed retroactive would never come up nor likely be noticed .
even the folks at ss were not aware of that fact . they first had to get a higher up who did the math and confirmed that is just what happens . you can end up not getting as much as 11 months of retro drc credits on the past checks already received . .
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-26-2016 at 12:26 PM..
I presume that if i turn 70 in mid June, the first month for which I qualify for benefits AT THE AGE 70 amount is JULY (the first FUL MONTH I am 70)….with that JULY benefit to be PAID in AUGUST.
mathjak107, AnyPIA (SSA Calculator) awards the 8% in January of the following year as you have been explaining. The only exception according to the calculator is when the claim is made at age 70. Then it awards the last increment (Jan through birthday month) at whatever time of year the birthday falls. So the first benefit payment at age 70 has the full 1.32 factor.
So, as you said, if your birthday were, say, July 10, 1948 and you claimed in July 2014 at FRA, the factor is 1.0. So the benefit is 1.0*(FRA benefit). If you waited until October (a quarter of a year after FRA) to claim, the benefit initially is 1.0*(FRA benefit). It is this amount until January 01, 2015 (the year after FRA) when the 3 months (a quarter of a year) from the year before are applied and the factor becomes 1.020 (a quarter of 8%).
I've never seen someone who made a claim in the middle of the FRA-70 period join these conversations and share the actual experience but the calculator says you wait until January for all deferred years except the last one when you turn 70.
But I do have a motive for interrupting your conversation only to agree and not add. While I was gathering data I decided to have the calculator show the survivor benefit as including the delay but I could find no way in survivor mode of telling the calculator that the dead spouse had delayed collecting benefits so, no matter what I tried, the aged widower benefit always maintained a 1.00 factor. Do you know what I am doing wrong. If the now dead spouse never filed and died on his 70th birthday, shouldn't the aged widow factor be 1.32?
what was your age that you put in when you entered the survivor benefit info ? there is a reduction if you were under fra .
survivor benefits always will include any delayed credits to 70 , regular spousal benefits do not go beyond fra amounts .
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-26-2016 at 12:37 PM..
what was your age that you put in when you entered the survivor benefit info ? there is a reduction if you were under fra .
No, in fact the aging widow was put in as older than the dead spouse. The widow would have been 72 when the dead spouse turned 70.
The calculator seems to work as expected up to the widow's FRA. At widow's age 62 there is a factor of .818; at widow's FRA and beyond the factor is 1.0. The widow's age isn't the problem. The problem is that there is no way that I can find to tell the calculator that the dead spouse, at age 70, had not claimed his benefits. So I guess I can't get the calculator to calculate the dead spouse's benefit correctly before it is applied to the widow's factors. With my inputs, the calculator thinks the widow's benefit is capped at the dead spouse's FRA benefit.
Don't worry about it. I thought there might be a chance that you had run this yourself in widow mode and might know what I was doing wrong like failing to check some box or something.
hypothetically if someone was going to take it feb but took it the following january instead of feb you not only got those drc credits applied going forward but you captured the drc on all the checks without anyone of them being less than your full with drc credit's applied . giving up 7.3% in drc credit that you cannot recover is almost a whole years delaying so it is substantial.
of course the question is do you want to wait almost another year to collect.
the fact you earned that 7.3% increase should have nothing to do with the fact you earned those credits by delaying . if you were pre fra and filing you would get every penny due you the minute you filed , so i don't buy in to that reasoning . you earned those credits already so every check after that should by right reflect those credits just as they do pre fra .
this is no different , yet they make it different .
I would disagree with that part. You are getting 8% per year DRC, after FRA, and only losing 5% per year, pre FRA. Apples and oranges. I'd much rather have it the way it is, than just get 5% after FRA and collect every DRC when earned instantly. A months DRC is worth about $19.50/mo, maximum, so yes, you COULD play that "look what I am losing game". But that's the very same game that is an "arguement" against delaying in the first place...so basically it makes the most sense to claim in Jan and get a full months extra SS check, vs claim in Feb, get one less check for the same amount, but get an extra $19.50 raise in Jan of the next year. So lose $4000 now, for an extra $19.50 mo?? Thats a VERY hard one to swallow. Will it matter to me if my SS is plus or minus $20/mo at 70?? Heck no! COLA is more than that. But lose a $4000 check?? Heck, that is sure not happening.
This the very reason why I said that while I personally see the reasons and math for delaying, I can easily see where making it all the way to 70 can be very very difficult. Especially if the market is doing well. Or health is declining. Etc, etc.
it is roughly 6% pre fra per year you gain . i think something like 5.70% . it is 8% after fra
so if my pia is 2600 per month 2/3 of 1% that is 17.42 . it really is not that much i guess. they count the almost 6% you are getting as part of the 8% so it is really the difference they are taking away .
Last edited by mathjak107; 09-26-2016 at 03:22 PM..
I would disagree with that part. You are getting 8% per year DRC, after FRA, and only losing 5% per year, pre FRA. Apples and oranges. I'd much rather have it the way it is, than just get 5% after FRA and collect every DRC when earned instantly. A months DRC is worth about $19.50/mo, maximum, so yes, you COULD play that "look what I am losing game". But that's the very same game that is an "arguement" against delaying in the first place...so basically it makes the most sense to claim in Jan and get a full months extra SS check, vs claim in Feb, get one less check for the same amount, but get an extra $19.50 raise in Jan of the next year. So lose $4000 now, for an extra $19.50 mo?? Thats a VERY hard one to swallow. Will it matter to me if my SS is plus or minus $20/mo at 70?? Heck no! COLA is more than that. But lose a $4000 check?? Heck, that is sure not happening.
This the very reason why I said that while I personally see the reasons and math for delaying, I can easily see where making it all the way to 70 can be very very difficult. Especially if the market is doing well. Or health is declining. Etc, etc.
I too am delaying until 70, and also will turn 70 in February. So if I am understanding correctly you are going to claim to receive your first check in January when you are 69.11 instead of February the month you turn 70 ?
^^That's what I'm curious about….if we're talking about getting SS at 70.
What is the first month we are eligible for the full age 70 delayed amount….the month you TURN 70, or the first FULL month you ARE 70". (with the check to come the month after)
If you're eligible for the FULL age 70 amount for the month you TURN 70 (February) you'd a get a full age 70 benefit pains in March.
If you have to BE 70 the entire month to get the full age 70 amount then that month would be MARCH, and the first full age 70 benefit for March would be PAID in April.
When people say they want their benefit to START in a given month to they mean the first month they will claim eligibility, or the first month they want to GET a deposit.
My fear would be if a person turns 70 in February, and claims for benefits to START IN February, technically they could get a benefit not at the full age 70 delayed amount. Because SS would say, "ah but you weren't 70 for the entire month you said you wanted benefits to "start." And all your deposits and increases after that a just a bit less, because they're based on the 69.11 amount and not the full age 70 amount.
If they make you give back a month just because a person died on the 25th and didn't live a whole month. I don't see them paying you at the start -- for a month in which you were NOT the eligible age for that entire month.
^^That's what I'm curious about….if we're talking about getting SS at 70.
What is the first month we are eligible for the full age 70 delayed amount….the month you TURN 70, or the first FULL month you ARE 70". (with the check to come the month after)
If you're eligible for the FULL age 70 amount for the month you TURN 70 (February) you'd a get a full age 70 benefit pains in March.
If you have to BE 70 the entire month to get the full age 70 amount then that month would be MARCH, and the first full age 70 benefit for March would be PAID in April.
When people say they want their benefit to START in a given month to they mean the first month they will claim eligibility, or the first month they want to GET a deposit.
My fear would be if a person turns 70 in February, and claims for benefits to START IN February, technically they could get a benefit not at the full age 70 delayed amount. Because SS would say, "ah but you weren't 70 for the entire month you said you wanted benefits to "start." And all your deposits and increases after that a just a bit less, because they're based on the 69.11 amount and not the full age 70 amount.
If they make you give back a month just because a person died on the 25th and didn't live a whole month. I don't see them paying you at the start -- for a month in which you were NOT the eligible age for that entire month.
FWIW, when I applied for Delayed Retirement Credit based on turning 70 in August, my first payment was in September. I started the application 3 months earlier (as SS suggests) in May.
Be aware that they will try to talk you into taking a 6 month retroactive Lump Sum payment, but this reduces your monthly amount going forward accordingly. Be very specific with them if you do not want the Lump. BTDT.
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