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I read an article about MMM in Kiplingers. OK, that's a rich folks magazine. But he seems much more reasonable than Suze Orman. Not trying to sell you high priced products or insist you have to be a millionaire. Though some of his tactics seem extreme. For example he loves his bike, spending only $150 on gas last year.
He's a huge environmentalist. He believes we should all be burning far less fossil fuels. Also, he believes keeping your body healthy with daily exercise is key to a long and happy life. In short, the bicycling is about much more than saving money.
Well, re-modeled. But yes, he had a business venture for a few years pre-retirement wherein he and a partner built some homes for re-sale. (Apparently, he would work all day at his software engineer job then work evenings and weekends doing construction). And, he occasionally does things like help someone put on a new roof (for pay or not).
And, that is one of his philosophies. You can learn to do stuff for yourself and not pay someone else to do it. Of course, not all of us want to learn to build houses.
But the thing is, you aren't required to adopt his entire life philosophy. It's perfectly OK to take what works for you and leave the rest.
and that's fine, what I'm saying is I wish there was full disclosure. I have put in my own floor, do you know how labor intensive and time intensive it can be??
so either way you pay. I calculated the cost it took me to put in hardwood floors in time, frustration and hard work (now I was 47 with a bad knee at the time, LOL) at my pay rate on my job, the cost was well over 4K.
again, I have no issue with his philosophy but again I wish he would have full disclosure.
NO the average joe is not waking up, slapping a new roof on his house in 30 minutes and watching the game.
The video that was linked in this thread has him implying that it was oh so easy. In my opinion.
What I find a bit ironic about this is that lets see you do all of this to become FIRE and have supposedly "your time be your own" but in order to do it (build your own house) you spend nothing but time.
It's all good, to each his own.
like I always say they hawk it just like the weight lost industry hawks their products. everyone screams about how "easy" it is to lose weight. Yet most people fail at dieting too.
I do like his slogan "financial freedom through Badassity"
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55
I read an article about MMM ... Though some of his tactics seem extreme. For example he loves his bike, spending only $150 on gas last year.
Then you might consider it extreme that I have been brewing my own fuel for 40+ yrs, and still driving a 1976 Rabbit that gets 50mpg on FREE fuel,, not extreme for me... just a Bad Rabbit Habit over 40,000 gallons of Dino fuel conserved for others to burn.
BTW: The last year I was living in MMM's climate (Colorado) I rode my bike everyday of the year except (3) ... (to save more FREE fuel)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc
and that's fine, what I'm saying is I wish there was full disclosure. I have put in my own floor, do you know how labor intensive and time intensive it can be??
...
The video that was linked in this thread has him implying that it was oh so easy. In my opinion.
What I find a bit ironic about this is that lets see you do all of this to become FIRE and have supposedly "your time be your own" but in order to do it (build your own house) you spend nothing but time.
It's all good, to each his own.
...
But... LEARNING to do all this stuff is FUN for most of us (or we would not do it!)... especially fun and useful when we transfer our learning's to others (overseas and at home)
True, TIME is all we got, so use it wisely (as a wage slave, or homeschooling your kids / building houses you enjoy and can't find contractors willing to do it as you like it!) I have 2 level garage, lots of stone (in and out) built-ins (like they did in the 1920 - 1930s...) 100 % natural woodwork ... Contractors are not keen on doing that... they want to get in and get OUT! I REALLY enjoy my custom home (Far more than anyone else is gonna enjoy it). Choices...??? we all make them. I like the house SO much (built brick by brick... ) that I spend TIME and $$ to figure out haw to 're-buy' it every 7 yrs from the tax collector.
I have a lot of ways (creative / useful, wasteful) to spend my time and I will live (and die) with those choices.
Glad I gave up my TV in 1968... I didn't consider that a good way to spend my time.
Homeschooling (putting career on hold for 12 + yrs ) caring for several elderly rural couples, 32 yrs as a caregiver for disabled parent, teaching foreigners, my kids and neighbors to build homes, and to farm (and give away most the crop...) Life long contributor to others (giving away more than I kept...) All FREE choices of how to SPEND (invest) my time and $$. +/-, certainly not all WISE decisions and FEW would be considered prudent, and very fee would even be considered buy others.) OK... Be different, be bold, be yourself!
Many can't live without their netflix streaming. I will never know... (I only have 'pay-per-byte' dial-up available... in the boonies)
While on 'Vacation'... i volunteer building homes and orphanages. in true C-D 'retirement' fashion THAT is a No-No!! (expending any effort while on 'vacation'...)
to each his own. Let freedom ring (as long as possible)
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 10-27-2018 at 10:39 PM..
MMM is to some extent the modern Henry David Thoreau, or at least promotes himself as such. The aim is less about retirement, in the sense of cessation of regular and intensive labor, than independence from a regular employer. That’s not identical to just owning one’s own business, because the business-owner likely has employees, and almost certainly has clients… all of whom require a particular care and deftness of approach. Thoreau/MMM would dispense with all of that, recognizing that in so doing, their actual personal labor would be increased – including the drudgery and exertion on mundane tasks, which a modern professional would outsource to others.
I fundamentally disagree with MMM, in that I’d rather write code for $80/hour (assuming that I possessed such skill) in an air conditioned office, than to sweat on a rooftop, even if the latter is for myself, or for my personal friends. But I fundamentally agree with him, in the appeal of having a smaller consumer footprint, in desiring less and accumulating less, thus carrying less insurance and doing less maintenance and clucking less over things breaking or going out of tune. It is also lovely to be paid for one’s writing, even if having to stoop to the scurrilous expedient of running a web-site that’s supported by advertising. If only I could monetize what I’ve been posting on this forum….
The difficulty with all of these gurus and sages, is having the mix of luck and fortitude, to watch how implementation of the advice actually pans out. For example, if a financial guru counsels us to save more, to spend less and to eschew instant gratification, well, it would help if say over 2-3 years of doing this, we saw our portfolio grow faster than inflation. To invest at the top of the market, or to hold bonds that keep declining in value, feels like running up a descending escalator. Why bother, if one sustains the hardship of not satisfying one’s immediate desires, and has no accumulated progress to show for it? But if one does persevere long enough, and is sufficiently lucky over that time, then the need for a guru is obviated. One gains one’s own intuition for present-spending vs. accumulation for the future, and the reward for such fortitude comes quarterly, in printed statements from one’s brokerage account.
Henry David Thoreau had the luxury of having chosen his parents relatively wisely. He then managed to make himself sufficiently agreeable to persons of means and influence, that he could pursue his various iconoclastic endeavors while others did the necessary icon-workshop. That makes him somewhat of a fraud, but a good one, for he left to us some brilliant writing – which, presumably, he couldn’t have done, were he to have been a full-time roofer, or a software-programmer. Few of today’s gurus will leave anything remotely as memorable, or, ahem, transcendent. But… what makes possible our own selves becoming outstanding individuals, is the wielding of sufficient resources, that allow – however modestly – for dispensing with the compounds of the daily grind. If this resource-wielding is the ultimate lesson of the financial gurus, then their point is well-taken. Or, as Thoreau said, and MMM might have said, to “live deliberately”.
MMM is to some extent the modern Henry David Thoreau, or at least promotes himself as such. The aim is less about retirement, in the sense of cessation of regular and intensive labor, than independence from a regular employer. That’s not identical to just owning one’s own business, because the business-owner likely has employees, and almost certainly has clients… all of whom require a particular care and deftness of approach. Thoreau/MMM would dispense with all of that, recognizing that in so doing, their actual personal labor would be increased – including the drudgery and exertion on mundane tasks, which a modern professional would outsource to others.
I ”.
Thoreau was a fraud too.
He basically lived in a guys shed for free for 2 years, (far from. "Out in the wilderness") went over to other people's house to eat their food for free, and had his mother do his laundry!
Note: I do not hold myself up as someone to be emulated, but I live (by choice) offgrid, heat primarily with wood, garden, do home canning, keep bees, and live (quote wastefully I think) on <$3k\month.
I use as much electricity (solar) in a month as most Americans do in a day!
He basically lived in a guys shed for free for 2 years, (far from. "Out in the wilderness") went over to other people's house to eat their food for free, and had his mother do his laundry!
!
Then you must be glad he did time in jail (one day) for not paying taxes, and having his protest thwarted by friends paying it behind his back.
Points #4 & 8 of the article in the OP are the most important in my opinion. I'm not a big Suze Orman fan at all. She is such an advocate of not taking SS until you're 70. Her "One Size Fits All" advice is just like OSFA clothing, it really fits no one particularly well. There are as many right answers to the retirement puzzle as their are people who retire.
Every wise financial professional I've spoken with advises not to take SS until age 70. You can, of course, stop working before then and live off other assets, but it really is foolish not to wait until age 70 to take SS. The math supports that this is the best guaranteed return on investment. The only logical exception is if someone is forced into retiring sooner because of poor health.
Every wise financial professional I've spoken with advises not to take SS until age 70. You can, of course, stop working before then and live off other assets, but it really is foolish not to wait until age 70 to take SS. The math supports that this is the best guaranteed return on investment. The only logical exception is if someone is forced into retiring sooner because of poor health.
No that is not the only logical reason to take Social Security earlier. If you have enough savings/investments when added to the early Social Security payment to live comfortably, you can retire at that earlier age. I didn't want to spend down my savings while waiting for a higher Social Security payment. And the numbers worked out so that I didn't have to. As it happened, by not spending down my savings, they grew more since 2010 than I could ever have imagined. So now I have even more. It doesn't matter that my Social Security is lower than it could have been.
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,, not extreme for me... just a Bad Rabbit Habit
over 40,000 gallons of Dino fuel conserved for others to burn. 
