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I would rather clean poopy diapers than deal with the nonsense of the typical white collar office work environment. I've been in the workforce over a decade and I can't point to one thing I've done in a workplace that would be more gratifying and more meaningful than raising a child. I say that as a man who has opted for a childless lifestyle with freedom. I don't have that luxury of making the choice of stay at home parenting vs. working.
I realize that if I were to have a child with a woman, it is more likely than not that the woman and I would separate before the child turns 18, which is not good for the child.
When a couple splits, which is more likely than not in this current mating environment, both parties need to be able to have a self sustaining career, which is only possible by avoiding the SAHM path. While the SAHM path is better for child rearing, it is not better for the mother, who is putting herself in a great deal of danger by doing so.
Your final point about the job market is perfect. Even before the pandemic, job competition was fierce because of the larger labor due to having both sexes in the workplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Since you're a man, why are you trying to speak for women? And why would a real man care at all about being "frowned upon"? If you want to be a SAHD then do it!
Oh - I just realized you're talking about the joy of cleaning poopy diapers but you're childless? Have you changed diapers of younger siblings, or nieces or nephews? Worked in childcare?! No, No, and No?
Then I'll double down on NOT talking for women when you know absolutely nothing about their lives or of children. Just being a child (past and present?) doesn't give you special perspective just uninformed opinions and we know everyone has those, so not special.
Oh - be sure to keep your current job - competition from all those bad working women.
I was with you until you got to the part where you were a SAHM far beyond reason. By the time a kid is 11 years old, they don't need constant supervision. I bet you went back to work in a hurry when the gravy train left the station. You could have been back at work as soon as they started school.
Your marriage was nothing like my marriage. My wife is a partner, not a responsibility.
Good grief.
Former SAHM mom here who returned to work after 8 years at home, and after earning my master's degree while taking care of a home and 3 kids and after we'd moved (for my ex-husband's job) to another country.
You know nothing about that posters situation when she was married. Why do people always assume a woman makes a unilateral decision to stay at home or to work? I don't that poster, I don't know her ex-husband, but I'll bet he had some say in the fact that she stayed at home for as long as she did. He probably had a lot of say in it.
It's almost always easy to spot posters who don't have kids (I'm right, aren't I?) and/or who've never take care of a home and kids. They're clueless. And they're too clueless to know they're clueless.
The last 50 years has been a time of expansion of opportunities for working women. It's not society that is holding them back.
No, it's that the care of children and home when the kids are young is a full-time job. It's not always possible for both spouses to work outside of the home if one spouse works long hours, travels for work, is transferred to another state/country for work, and there's no extended family nearby to help out.
Once again, it's obvious that you don't have children and have never faced many of the same situations families WITH children deal with every day.
No, it's that the care of children and home when the kids are young is a full-time job. It's not always possible for both spouses to work outside of the home if one spouse works long hours, travels for work, is transferred to another state/country for work, and there's no extended family nearby to help out.
My niece has an MBA but decided to stay home after she had twins- they'd wanted children for years and finally managed it through IVF. I think it's a totally different decision when you have multiples or a special-needs kid- you CAN still have both parents outside the home but it's a challenge. He ended up becoming the youngest person to make partner at his Big 6 firm and he worked his rear end off to get there. I doubt that he'd have been able to do that without her at home. From what I can see, they have a good marriage and he's a very involved father.
Other examples from my family- SIL is a dynamo, got through college on a volleyball scholarship, worked in marketing and loved it- but quit when the first kid was born although from Day One she was doing volunteer work. Brother (her DH) just retired as tax partner in a large CPA firm. One of their sons medalled in the Olympics in swimming in Beijing and London. SIL volunteered to coach the country club kid's swim team and turned out to be so gifted at it that eventually she ended up coaching the HS swim team after her kids were older. THEIR daughter was making $100K/year before she was 30 and just had her second- still working FT.
There are many different and successful models of parenting in my family.
My niece has an MBA but decided to stay home after she had twins- they'd wanted children for years and finally managed it through IVF. I think it's a totally different decision when you have multiples or a special-needs kid- you CAN still have both parents outside the home but it's a challenge. He ended up becoming the youngest person to make partner at his Big 6 firm and he worked his rear end off to get there. I doubt that he'd have been able to do that without her at home. From what I can see, they have a good marriage and he's a very involved father.
Other examples from my family- SIL is a dynamo, got through college on a volleyball scholarship, worked in marketing and loved it- but quit when the first kid was born although from Day One she was doing volunteer work. Brother (her DH) just retired as tax partner in a large CPA firm. One of their sons medalled in the Olympics in swimming in Beijing and London. SIL volunteered to coach the country club kid's swim team and turned out to be so gifted at it that eventually she ended up coaching the HS swim team after her kids were older. THEIR daughter was making $100K/year before she was 30 and just had her second- still working FT.
There are many different and successful models of parenting in my family.
This exactly. The important thing is many women have more options today and it should be a family decision with equitable financial reprecussions.
In a concurrent thread a poster mentioned the dwindling demographic of women who married young and were used to having a husband to make decisions.
I believe that there are some women even in my decade, ( seventies) who never worked outside the home and did not acquire financial independence. My husband's ex was one such case.
When the divorce occurred although the settlement was generous , their joint decision to live on one income after marriage had long range and negative implications. The mortgage is not paid off, she can no longer afford her golf club and in two years she needs to find the wherewithal to pay off the remaining mortgage or sell. She complains that she does not enjoy the same lifestyle and it is a fact.
I know that that she viewed her contribution was to raise two children and that is no mean feat.
My daughters roll their eyes about such vulnerable women and state that they would never be in that position nor could they afford to be!
I took ten years out to raise a family overseas but have worked the rest of the time and am still working PT because I enjoy it. I refused to be exposed to the vagaries of financial dependence.
I try to be sympathetic to my husband's college educated ex but fail most of the time. Her chickens have come home to roost and yes, that does sound harsh I know.
i am not buying into the concept of paying for her golf club when I think of the long days working in my classroom while she lived a less accountable life!
Life choices I know.
here we go again... I'm a stay at home mom and I love it. Seriously. I have worked many Jobs in the past and I hate working lol well it's just not worth it. I have a learning disability so I just keep getting fired. I'm so much better at just being home, cleaning and taking care of my kids.
Your daughters think it's some kind of sad situation and a weak woman; not at all. Actually I think they are jealous.
I would rather clean poopy diapers than deal with the nonsense of the typical white collar office work environment. I've been in the workforce over a decade and I can't point to one thing I've done in a workplace that would be more gratifying and more meaningful than raising a child. I say that as a man who has opted for a childless lifestyle with freedom. I don't have that luxury of making the choice of stay at home parenting vs. working.
I realize that if I were to have a child with a woman, it is more likely than not that the woman and I would separate before the child turns 18, which is not good for the child.
When a couple splits, which is more likely than not in this current mating environment, both parties need to be able to have a self sustaining career, which is only possible by avoiding the SAHM path. While the SAHM path is better for child rearing, it is not better for the mother, who is putting herself in a great deal of danger by doing so.
Your final point about the job market is perfect. Even before the pandemic, job competition was fierce because of the larger labor due to having both sexes in the workplace.
I have to agree. I also would rather change diapers. Actually I do that already since I am a stay at home mom. I never had a career or a job that lasted more than a few years so it's not like I lost a career or anything... But it will still be very difficult to try to work again with my 6+ year job gap.
I have to agree. I also would rather change diapers. Actually I do that already since I am a stay at home mom. I never had a career or a job that lasted more than a few years so it's not like I lost a career or anything... But it will still be very difficult to try to work again with my 6+ year job gap.
Sooner or later the kids grow up and leave the nest. Then what are your plans? Certainly reproducing and raising kids is important and fulfills the biological imperative but have you also considering anything else you want to accomplish during your lifetime?
Sooner or later the kids grow up and leave the nest. Then what are your plans? Certainly reproducing and raising kids is important and fulfills the biological imperative but have you also considering anything else you want to accomplish during your lifetime?
Good question and I've seen happy and unhappy outcomes. My SILs who were SAH moms are doing plenty- lots of volunteer work, one is in a senior tennis league, one does a lot of DIY remodeling of the house with my brother. I mentioned my SIL who turned her volunteer swim coaching into a HS coaching job. My own mother had a circle of friends and they went out for lunch, played cards, etc. She and Dad were active in their church as well. I totally agree that you need an identity separate from being someone's Mom, as important as that is.
And... I know two cases where the wife was pretty much lost after the kids were out of the house. One is married to a guy who travels all over the world to present papers and attend conferences. (Well, not sure about recent months.) His wife has zero interest in accompanying him and will travel only to see the grandkids. Last time I saw him he spoke wistfully about their early days in CA when she was a long-haired flower child. The other case is also one where the wife is VERY involved with the daughter who lives nearby and their 2 grandchildren- that's about her only area of interest. She lost interest in any relationship with her husband years ago. I know I just get his side but I've known him for 40+ years and he's a good guy.
My DIL has an extensive group of female friends and she maintains contact with them as much as she can with 3 little kids. I do everything I can to encourage that.
Certainly divorce is the #1 thing to avoid in your financial planning. Marriage should be a partnership between two adults who plan for their future. My wife and I have a wonderful retirement thanks to that partnership. We also really love each other, and have a great time hanging out together. That helps a lot.
I don't see divorced people as victims. They did it to themselves, either by marrying the wrong person or by being impossible to live with. If you are talking averages, 70% of the time it's the women who end marriages, not the men. With a little early life shuffling, anyone who is capable of a long term relationship has one.
Death of a partner is less of a problem, since absent a will the surviving spouse inherits everything tax free. If you are concerned about cash flow, that is what life insurance is for, also tax free. Arriving at old age with inadequate assets is a boomer generational problem. We both have small pensions that are set up for 100% survivor benefits. Barring the collapse of civilization, neither of us will ever live in poverty.
The last 50 years has been a time of expansion of opportunities for working women. It's not society that is holding them back.
It only takes one partner to initiate divorce. True, women have more of a choice since they are more likely to file. But sometimes men do too, especially when they find a young woman who gives them attention or figures there are plenty of surplus women their age. So the illusion of control is just that.
Would you buy a ticket for a flight knowing there was a 30% chance it would crash? I guess you would, but most folks won't.
Last edited by pvande55; 06-04-2020 at 06:37 PM..
Reason: Add lines
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here we go again... I'm a stay at home mom and I love it. Seriously. I have worked many Jobs in the past and I hate working lol well it's just not worth it. I have a learning disability so I just keep getting fired. I'm so much better at just being home, cleaning and taking care of my kids. 
