Worcester to Providence Rail - Stop in Woonsocket (Cumberland, Central Falls: low income, real estate)
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Commuter rail company moves to Woonsocket
Sunday
Posted Jun 26, 2016 at 10:18 AM
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WORCESTER - Boston Surface Railroad, the company aiming to connect Worcester and Providence by commuter rail, has moved into new offices in Woonsocket, R.I.
Situated almost halfway between Providence and Worcester, Woonsocket will likely be the commuter rail's only stop. According to Boston Surface's website, the company hopes to start trips in early 2018 and is exploring the option of beginning service from Woonsocket to Providence earlier than that.
I'm all for more rail, but this seems like such a pipe dream. Is there really demand for commuter rail between Providence and Worcester, especially with only one stop in between? How many people are even doing that commute?
I'm all for more rail, but this seems like such a pipe dream. Is there really demand for commuter rail between Providence and Worcester, especially with only one stop in between? How many people are even doing that commute?
If they can get this project off the ground, it'll be great for the Worcester-Providence Corridor. In MA, development has been so Boston-centric, that this shift could help Central MA/Northern RI, economically.
In order for it to be successful, they'll need to upgrade the tracks (a significant investment) to allow for faster and more frequent service. 75 minutes on a train when it takes an hour by car isn't all that appealing of an option. Especially when you consider that you need to transfer to to a local transit service (not particularly wonderful in Worcester), or walk (also not particularly wonderful in Worcester) to your final destination. 2 or 3 trips each way per day isn't really great either. A lot of the benefits of a Worcester-Providence connection via rail come from transfer opportunities for the folks from Worcester. They can connect to Acela (or regional Amtrak service), TF Green Commuter Rail, or RIPTA throughout the state. 2 or 3 trips daily doesn't really make those transfers viable (at least not with any sort of flexibility). For frequent service could be an economic spark for Providence and connect Worcester to another great job market.
I love the ambition and the fact that it's largely being done through private investment. I also think the price tag is great. However, in order to make the service viable, it needs to be more frequent and faster.
In order for it to be successful, they'll need to upgrade the tracks (a significant investment) to allow for faster and more frequent service. 75 minutes on a train when it takes an hour by car isn't all that appealing of an option. Especially when you consider that you need to transfer to to a local transit service (not particularly wonderful in Worcester), or walk (also not particularly wonderful in Worcester) to your final destination. 2 or 3 trips each way per day isn't really great either. A lot of the benefits of a Worcester-Providence connection via rail come from transfer opportunities for the folks from Worcester. They can connect to Acela (or regional Amtrak service), TF Green Commuter Rail, or RIPTA throughout the state. 2 or 3 trips daily doesn't really make those transfers viable (at least not with any sort of flexibility). For frequent service could be an economic spark for Providence and connect Worcester to another great job market.
I love the ambition and the fact that it's largely being done through private investment. I also think the price tag is great. However, in order to make the service viable, it needs to be more frequent and faster.
I agree with your overall sentiment. We can't expect them to expand the service and upgrade the tracks without seeing the response to the initial service. Both Worcester and Providence are solid regional cities with growing economies. I hope that this project hits the rails and further supports economic development in both cities.
I don't know, it doesn't seem like either DT Providence or DT Worcester are booming with jobs. At least not a significant amount that would attract enough riders on the train to make it feasible. Traffic is not a huge issue in either city (less so in Worcester than Providence), and greater incentive must be provided to ride vs. drive. Even in rush hour, the train won't save you any time without significant upgrades. If it were ever to happen, in addition to Woonsocket I would add a stop by the Park and Ride off 146/Mass Pike in Millbury, as well as off 295 in Cumberland. Maybe then extend it to TF Green (but of course it isn't even utilized with its current service to Providence and Boston).
I don't know, it doesn't seem like either DT Providence or DT Worcester are booming with jobs. At least not a significant amount that would attract enough riders on the train to make it feasible. Traffic is not a huge issue in either city (less so in Worcester than Providence), and greater incentive must be provided to ride vs. drive. Even in rush hour, the train won't save you any time without significant upgrades. If it were ever to happen, in addition to Woonsocket I would add a stop by the Park and Ride off 146/Mass Pike in Millbury, as well as off 295 in Cumberland. Maybe then extend it to TF Green (but of course it isn't even utilized with its current service to Providence and Boston).
according to MBTA Nov, 2013 figures Boston bound travel from T.F. Green is 230 daily average and 160 from Wickford. There are at least 20 stations on the MBTA commuter rail system that have fewer passengers than both of these Rhode Island stations. These figures do no include reverse commutes or travel between intermediate stations. Thus, there is no count for travelers who's destination is Providence. The last estimation of those who commute by train into Providence was in 2014, about 50 northbound and 300 southbound M-F daily.
A stop in Woonsocket might be very good for people working in Boston and looking for a place to live since Woonsocket affords cheaper housing and certainly needs some improving. However, it might be bad for all the low income people currently living in Woonsocket on low rent unless they are capable/qualified to get better jobs in Boston. Their rents would go up. So, depends on your point of view. Same, although perhaps to a lesser degree, would apply to Worcester.
according to MBTA Nov, 2013 figures Boston bound travel from T.F. Green is 230 daily average and 160 from Wickford. There are at least 20 stations on the MBTA commuter rail system that have fewer passengers than both of these Rhode Island stations. These figures do no include reverse commutes or travel between intermediate stations. Thus, there is no count for travelers who's destination is Providence. The last estimation of those who commute by train into Providence was in 2014, about 50 northbound and 300 southbound M-F daily.
Just anecdotal evidence, but whenever I take the train from TF Green, the platform is packed. I'm not really sure if it would support too many more people -- at that point you'd have to add more trains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree
A stop in Woonsocket might be very good for people working in Boston and looking for a place to live since Woonsocket affords cheaper housing and certainly needs some improving. However, it might be bad for all the low income people currently living in Woonsocket on low rent unless they are capable/qualified to get better jobs in Boston. Their rents would go up. So, depends on your point of view. Same, although perhaps to a lesser degree, would apply to Worcester.
I think I'm one of the few people in this state who think Woonsocket has some serious potential. If you squint hard enough, it's a really attractive, well-laid-out place. Nobody seems to be able to get past "but the economy" and "it's not doing well and therefore things can never get better." I was talking it up to a co-worker who lives in Cumberland and she said, "There are murders there!" (There's an average of about one per year -- some years have none, some years have two.)
^^^^ It's not gentrification that's the problem. Woonsocket was a decent lower end city, working class people. Many families migrated from Canada during the depression for low wage jobs, even children worked in the textile mills doing rough jobs 10 / 11 hrs. a day. The mills saved Woonsocket back then, people formed little 'areas' and streets etc. which they named for their origins. It was a very religious Roman Catholic area as well, there were some beautiful churches and parochial schools, and the people were proud.
As the years went by, a bad element moved in, mills went out of business, real estate development was zero; families crowded into 3 and 4+ unit homes. Housing for the elderly and poor were the only buildings being built. Later in the 70's and 80's there were a few new home developments, but now even those are crime ridden and low end areas, many of those homes have been 'let go'. They rehabbed the Stadium theater and that became somewhat popular again.
Woonsocket will always have a stigma in RI. The only worse city is Central Falls which had a similar history of textile mill workers, also where many French Canadians settled. They were proud people, but they were very poor (yet very religious as well). Woonsocket and Central Falls may never overcome the stigma of houses literally on top of each other, lots of bars, a heavy drinking reputation, and a high percentage of residents on welfare, slum landlords -- all of which breed crime. For the past 20 years or so the criminal element has been rampant.
Newer residents of RI don't know and haven't seen or heard about the true RI history. Most native RI people don't clamor for city living; that is how the state developed. Just like other states, the suburbs offer a better quality of life. (You found that to be true by living a short time in the Edgewood area, then moving 'up' to East Greenwich.) There are many dividing lines in RI.
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