High Speed Rail

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

We can't agree.. then there won't be an argument..lol

Downtown need to attract & keep middle class families. Most projects seem to attract empty nesters, those with families bail when school starts because they can't afford living in the city and private school. Shopping for everyday is definitely needed families can not afford to living on small grocers/stores.

The city needs a complete plan and they need to stick to it! Look at Norfolk they spend over 20 years redesigning downtown, there were times it stopped, times is got adjusted but they never abandoned it. Now they have a cohesive living area with a good mix of living & work & tourist all mixed together.

European train travel is fun but when you look at the size of these countries trains are a great way to get from one city to another. Trust me though they have a massive car culture with all the back-ups and pollution we do. What is different is their is a lesser culture of suburbs than we have..

Downtown certainly has an issue with the school thing. The Fan and the Museum Districts are better, and I see quite a few people with kids. Schools in cities is an issue nationwide (except for maybe NYC...not sure), and it's kind of a chicken and egg discussion, depending on where the school funding comes from. First, we need to get the people without kids in there so that the tax base can grow. Then hopefully, funds for that school will increase, allowing more people with kids to inhabit the area. Not sure that that will work everywhere.

I hear people say that Europe is different, but there are areas of the country that aren't too dissimilar: the NE, parts of the mid-west, parts of CA, etc. The US is definitely more spread out on an overall level, but the country did have over 100 systems of streetcars at the turn of the 20th century. Even small cities of 10,000 had them. All cities in the US require mass transit systems, and there are tons of places that require some sort of intercity rail. The question in this thread is, where does HSR belong? I think HSR belongs more in those areas that I mentioned earlier in this paragraph, starting with the NE (which it already has, but barely considered HSR IMO).

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Downtown certainly has an issue with the school thing. The Fan and the Museum Districts are better, and I see quite a few people with kids. Schools in cities is an issue nationwide (except for maybe NYC...not sure), and it's kind of a chicken and egg discussion, depending on where the school funding comes from. First, we need to get the people without kids in there so that the tax base can grow. Then hopefully, funds for that school will increase, allowing more people with kids to inhabit the area. Not sure that that will work everywhere.

I hear people say that Europe is different, but there are areas of the country that aren't too dissimilar: the NE, parts of the mid-west, parts of CA, etc. The US is definitely more spread out on an overall level, but the country did have over 100 systems of streetcars at the turn of the 20th century. Even small cities of 10,000 had them. All cities in the US require mass transit systems, and there are tons of places that require some sort of intercity rail. The question in this thread is, where does HSR belong? I think HSR belongs more in those areas that I mentioned earlier in this paragraph, starting with the NE (which it already has, but barely considered HSR IMO).

Our Railway towns and cities outgrew our Auto-built cities and towns this past decade.... Some by 20% , over the next decade my state will expand / restore 8 lines and upgrade 13 Stations.... All the towns that are connected to Rail are taking full advantage of the areas of the stations..... redeveloping them....into Dense Residential / Retail sites..... Which brings jobs and new revenue for those towns.... As for LRT / Streetcars there coming back slowly Philly is restoring 57-70 miles of lines that were partially abandoned to the delight of the residents and business owners along those lines.... DC , Newark , Providence , Stamford , Baltimore , New Brunswick , and Boston have plans to build or expand there systems , its not to the extent of what it once was but its a start....

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

The question in this thread is, where does HSR belong?

If implemented I think only key stops in each state should be implemented like DC, Richmond, Raleigh, Charlotte then Atlanta. If you start stopping at every podunk along the way the benefit of HSR will be lost.... They also need to look at where cost/time of the HSR is worse than a plane ride. I would think Atlanta to NY for a buisness meeting would be better server by flying but Charlotte to atlanta would be much better on HSR.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Our Railway towns and cities outgrew our Auto-built cities and towns this past decade.... Some by 20% , over the next decade my state will expand / restore 8 lines and upgrade 13 Stations.... All the towns that are connected to Rail are taking full advantage of the areas of the stations..... redeveloping them....into Dense Residential / Retail sites..... Which brings jobs and new revenue for those towns.... As for LRT / Streetcars there coming back slowly Philly is restoring 57-70 miles of lines that were partially abandoned to the delight of the residents and business owners along those lines.... DC , Newark , Providence , Stamford , Baltimore , New Brunswick , and Boston have plans to build or expand there systems , its not to the extent of what it once was but its a start....

That's interesting. I was aware that SEPTA had many plans in the pipeline, including the upgrade of train cars and some stations (especially on the Broad st. line), but I didn't know they were restoring 57 - 70 miles of lines. Is this info on SEPTA's website? I'm moving to Philly this year, hence my interest.

I think that rail is going to inevitably going to be restored in many places. The problem is that the economy sucks (and is probably going to stay that way), and many cities that want to push through these projects can't do it now. It's frustrating because these projects should have been done back in the 70s when gas prices started to become a problem, and before we invested more into highways (in fact, our streetcar systems should never have been abandoned in the first place). Our automobiles should have been made more efficiently, but people like to trade efficiency for power.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

If implemented I think only key stops in each state should be implemented like DC, Richmond, Raleigh, Charlotte then Atlanta. If you start stopping at every podunk along the way the benefit of HSR will be lost.... They also need to look at where cost/time of the HSR is worse than a plane ride. I would think Atlanta to NY for a buisness meeting would be better server by flying but Charlotte to atlanta would be much better on HSR.

Exactly. As resounded on these forums before, 400 - 500 miles is the extent to which HSR is truly effective. Anything over that, and flying is the better option.

They should have the same setup here that they do overseas. HSR with minimal stops, which is sold as being multi-regional. Then they should have rail service that's within the region, thus demanding more stops. The biggest problem with our rail network right now is that passenger trains share the tracks with freight. I've gotten stuck on Amtrak for hours because there was an issue with a a freight train in front of us. I won't even take the train from Richmond to DC anymore because it's so frequently delayed (especially if you go from downtown instead of Staples Mill).

[ShadowBat]

Since Richmond and Hampton Roads metro areas border each other and both have over a million people each, and Richmond's metro borders DC's, I think it would be illogical to not have HSR connectiong the three areas. Many people in VA regularly go to NYC etc.

And on another note, the east coast as it is, is the most densely populated part of the country, from Florida to NH. Virginia is the 16th most densely populated state out of 50! And the bulk of VA's population is in the eastern half along i64 and up i95. Richmond is in a prime location for it to be a hub on the east coast between the north and the south. It only makes sense to have it extended to connect all the major areas of the east. And believe it or not, Richmond is an important city even if many feel it's not.

I know it will be expensive, but what are we going to do? Gas keeps going up, oil will eventually run out, pollution is out of control. We have to do something now, to reap the benefits in the future. The status quo is failing and it is not good enough anymore.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

That's interesting. I was aware that SEPTA had many plans in the pipeline, including the upgrade of train cars and some stations (especially on the Broad st. line), but I didn't know they were restoring 57 - 70 miles of lines. Is this info on SEPTA's website? I'm moving to Philly this year, hence my interest.

I think that rail is going to inevitably going to be restored in many places. The problem is that the economy sucks (and is probably going to stay that way), and many cities that want to push through these projects can't do it now. It's frustrating because these projects should have been done back in the 70s when gas prices started to become a problem, and before we invested more into highways (in fact, our streetcar systems should never have been abandoned in the first place). Our automobiles should have been made more efficiently, but people like to trade efficiency for power.

Its Septa Hobby / employee knowledge....

Heres a Map and the list of improvements / Expansions to Septa over the next 10 years. Funding is an issue hench why many , people put 2050 as the target date. Compared to surrounding states....The Infastrature has been preserved though , so restoration will be cheap.

Restoration of the Newton line
Restoration of the Reading line
Restoration of the West Chester line to Wawa
Upgrades to the Signal System
Replacement of Regional Rail wires
Norristown High Speed Trolley Extension to KOP / Reading line
Waterfront Light Rail
Naval Yards Light Rail
Restoration of the 23 Trolley
Restoration of the 56 Trolley
City Hall - Waterfront Trolley connection


SE PA 2050 Rail / Inner Urban Transit Plans & Proposals - Google Maps

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Its Septa Hobby / employee knowledge....

Heres a Map and the list of improvements / Expansions to Septa over the next 10 years. Funding is an issue hench why many , people put 2050 as the target date. Compared to surrounding states....The Infastrature has been preserved though , so restoration will be cheap.

Restoration of the Newton line
Restoration of the Reading line
Restoration of the West Chester line to Wawa
Upgrades to the Signal System
Replacement of Regional Rail wires
Norristown High Speed Trolley Extension to KOP / Reading line
Waterfront Light Rail
Naval Yards Light Rail
Restoration of the 23 Trolley
Restoration of the 56 Trolley
City Hall - Waterfront Trolley connection


SE PA 2050 Rail / Inner Urban Transit Plans & Proposals - Google Maps

Thanks for the link. I always appreciate your maps. Any idea as to which will be most likely to happen in the near future? There are so many I'm hopeful for. Especially in South Philly....there are some serious gaps where you have to walk to get to a station, even though it's a great walkable environment (but quite large).

Edit - Sorry for taking this thread so far off topic. Perhaps you can respond through DM? Back to the Richmond discussion!