Richmond: sleepier than I expected (Norfolk, Forest: houses, neighborhood, schools)

[spencer114]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

You are right but that was the shopping model that was so prevalent during that time; I don't think you know what it was like before that project. What I was emphasizing is that Norfolk had a plan, stuck to it and continued to support it after it was built. The problems of Nordstrom is no different than the reported problems at Stony Point or any mall for that matter. Even Waterside has had to redevelop because that type of "festival marketplace" doesn't really do well these days, heck Richmond abandoned hers then tore it down.

Navy Hill looks nice on paper but what about Manchester? There has been a lot of new places and what appears to be a cohesive development forming for 10 years + but there is no shopping. There is no Kroger, Food Lion, Aldi or anything other than a corner bodega and delivery pizza. People need normal shopping, not Whole Foods, not Fresh Market or Sprouts, that's why the city has so many food deserts. But as some post if there is going to be a Craft Brewery then its a great neighborhood but those same people used to complain that their was no bus to Short Pump but now they have one so I guess their finally happy.

Manchester is only 2-3 miles from many grocery stores. In rural communities grocery stores can be 20+ miles away. I’m really over the “no grocery store” trope. There’s one in the Bottom, one on Lombardy, one under construction on 25th, several Food Lions, a supper Kroger and a Publix within a 3-4 mile radius.
The population isn’t nearly large enough to support a full service grocer in the middle of Manchester (as I’m sure you’re aware, the downtown grocery store in Norfolk did not have enough business to remain open even with the larger Free Mason district population).

[cbl1]

A small discount grocer like Aldi's would probably do good in Manchester.

How do residents of Manchester actually feel about getting something like that. My worry, if I were living in some of he newer lofts/apartments in the nicer Manchester area, would be some of the clientele a grocery in the heart of Manchester would bring there. There are still a lot of dangerous areas in Manchester.

[cbl1]

This is the Manchester development that has the Grocer pad available but no announced takers as yet.

https://www.richmond.com/business/pl...db402ce86.html

[cbl1]

Here is full presentation on City View Marketplace

https://www.thalhimer.com/sites/defa...arketplace.pdf

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by cbl1

Plans I have seen in Manchester include a grocery store. The have been prepping the area for it - but I haven't heard of any actual stores signing on yet.

Yea I have been hearing that for several years..

[cbl1]

New articles from June said they were starting the process finally. I haven't been paying attention when driving through if they are making more progress.

[mpier015]

People bring up Manchester grocery stores when they run out of stuff to say. It's been said and disproven on here time and time again. It is a literal fact that population density is a huge factor in where grocery stores are placed. It is also a fact that Manchester does not yet have the population density to attract a grocer to the neighborhood. What do "food desert" people say when you bring up that fact? Nothing, they ignore it. What about all the suburbs all across the country miles away from grocery stores, in neighborhoods with no sidewalks, no public transportation, no bike lanes? For some reason, they aren't considered deserts but Manchester(walking distance, bus distance, bike distance) is. People only bring up food deserts when talking about urban areas. They pretend like every single mother in a popular neighborhood should be able to walk 3min to the grocery store with three kids in tow. It's not reality. Not being able to walk to a grocery store does not make a neighborhood not desirable and it isn't a deal breaker for most people, especially when you are still a short drive away in a city with no traffic.

[VA Yankee]

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No they bring it up as an on going fact, the phrase is used by the city itself and it reflects a lack of shopping options for those in that area. No one says a place must be on every corner but you try traveling on multiple buses with kids to shop, many city residents do not have a car and a corner bodega doesn't cut it. But if the new owners decide to shut down the Farm Fresh in the bottom as reported then that whole side of town can also travel to elsewhere.

The suburbs have always been car-centric and for anyone to expect living there with out one is foolish. The new trend of there must be buses/bike lanes for those that want the out burb life style is what is unrealistic. And yes for those out in the country also deal with food deserts but they have chosen to live there so that is a condition they accept.

[mpier015]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

/\

No they bring it up as an on going fact, the phrase is used by the city itself and it reflects a lack of shopping options for those in that area. No one says a place must be on every corner but you try traveling on multiple buses with kids to shop, many city residents do not have a car and a corner bodega doesn't cut it. But if the new owners decide to shut down the Farm Fresh in the bottom as reported then that whole side of town can also travel to elsewhere.

The suburbs have always been car-centric and for anyone to expect living there with out one is foolish. The new trend of there must be buses/bike lanes for those that want the out burb life style is what is unrealistic. And yes for those out in the country also deal with food deserts but they have chosen to live there so that is a condition they accept.

Which is exactly what you can say about Manchester but for some reason, it only irritates people that folks are still moving to these places when its neighborhoods like Manchester. And again, you ignored the fact that Manchester simply does not have the population density to attract a grocer. As I said, this conversation is only had in reference to Manchester and occasionally church hill when the vast majority of the city and the suburbs, with the exception of the broad street corridor, could be considered a food desert by these standards. You probably live in a "food desert" and survive just fine. You know how I know what I said is correct? Because you bought up Manchester out of the clear blue sky. You were going on about some cohesive downtown development that Norfolk doesn't have and praising its downtown mall as something Richmond should be doing better at. That made no sense so in your next post, responding to a plan of REAL downtown retail at Navy Hill, you bring up "what about Manchester". You literally had nothing else to say. Instead of just commenting on how Navy Hill is a strong proposal you had to bring up Manchester. No one was talking about Manchester at all. Heck, the conversation was literally about DOWNTOWNS before you made that comment. Had nothing to do with nothing. If you can't see how random that was and the difference in density and foot traffic between Broad Street, Navy Hill, and Manchester then idk what to say.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by deadpukka

Thanks for all the great details. I've looked into Asheville a bit, but for all its benefits, was thinking it's on a small side. Even Richmond is pushing my 'small town' limits I think. I've been putting a floor around 150-200k for city population.

Of the others you mentioned, I'd looked into Columbus OH, but not Cincinnati - I'll have to check that out more, and size-wize it seems in a sweetspot.

I'd done some research on Pittsburgh - and since I grew up in PA (albeit closer to Philly) - it's an option. Definitely cheap to live, but on many fronts, it just seems like a lesser Chicago. If I want that kind of weather, cheap rent, etc, I'd just head back to Chicago which has similar COL and way more amenities.

This a comparison of COL: https://apps.bea.gov/iTable/download.cfm

Source: https://apps.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.c...step=1&isuri=1