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Photonics does not "employ 18,000 people" there, that is a lie, in fact it makes me laugh every time I see it. It's stated, without any context or data backing it up.
Where did the $600M go? Thousands of jobs were supposed to be created, I remember laughing about that insane number when Biden was in town there for the announcement. Photonics became yet another nothingburger in a long line of nothingburgers there in Rochester.
No real jobs were created, they even blew $25M+ on the former Kodak R&D labs to overhaul them, when it was supposed to be $1M. Then the company pulled out in recent years.
Interesting point.....That was the former EK Building 81, on the east side of Lake Avenue. I saw a lot of activity surrounding that building, for a while, and now it's maybe a dozen cars in the parking lot. There most certainly was not room for 18,000 people to work in the building, maybe a couple hundred, at most.
Interesting point.....That was the former EK Building 81, on the east side of Lake Avenue. I saw a lot of activity surrounding that building, for a while, and now it's maybe a dozen cars in the parking lot. There most certainly was not room for 18,000 people to work in the building, maybe a couple hundred, at most.
The 18,000 are the number of people who work in the optics field in Rochester
The 18,000 are the number of people who work in the optics field in Rochester
I assumed that is what is meant, sort of, as I was initially commenting on the photonics portion of the business, which was supposed to be the next "greatest thing". EK, at it's peak, employed maybe around 2500-3000 people, directly involved with the production of optical components, spread over 3 locations. That number grew significantly, in the late 60s-early 70s, then dwindled, significantly, in the late 80s, early 90s.
But given the volume of product that EK put out, with that level of employment, I find it a little hard to believe that there enough smaller shops in the area, that would employ 5-6 times the number of people that EK did. Given that many of the current shops employ 100 people or less, with a few exceptions, that means that there one hell of a lot of optical fabrication shops in the Rochester area.....enough that there'd be one in just about every neighborhood in the county, and I just don't see it. Maybe they're really well hidden.
Photonics does not "employ 18,000 people" there, that is a lie, in fact it makes me laugh every time I see it. It's stated, without any context or data backing it up.
Where did the $600M go? Thousands of jobs were supposed to be created, I remember laughing about that insane number when Biden was in town there for the announcement. Photonics became yet another nothingburger in a long line of nothingburgers there in Rochester.
No real jobs were created, they even blew $25M+ on the former Kodak R&D labs to overhaul them, when it was supposed to be $1M. Then the company pulled out in recent years.
I believe it is in regards to the industry, not just for Rochester.
I assumed that is what is meant, sort of, as I was initially commenting on the photonics portion of the business, which was supposed to be the next "greatest thing". EK, at it's peak, employed maybe around 2500-3000 people, directly involved with the production of optical components, spread over 3 locations. That number grew significantly, in the late 60s-early 70s, then dwindled, significantly, in the late 80s, early 90s.
But given the volume of product that EK put out, with that level of employment, I find it a little hard to believe that there enough smaller shops in the area, that would employ 5-6 times the number of people that EK did. Given that many of the current shops employ 100 people or less, with a few exceptions, that means that there one hell of a lot of optical fabrication shops in the Rochester area.....enough that there'd be one in just about every neighborhood in the county, and I just don't see it. Maybe they're really well hidden.
I believe what the 18,000 jobs mean is jobs and the companies that are tied to optics. It could mean a secretary, or cleaner, but their jobs really are tied to the success of the company. Included in that number is also Kodak, Xerox, and they ARE both mostly optics companies. There's also companies like Bausch and Lomb which has about 1000 local employees making contact lenses. CooperVision is another 1000+ employer in the optics business. There's about 9000 jobs with 4 companies. That leaves about 9000 jobs spread over about 60 jobs (150). I also believe UR and RIT employ researchers doing optics, and both have optics degree programs as does MCC. Haven't any support jobs, contract workers or spin off jobs.
Who knows what the real number is, but there is no question optics is a large segment of our economy, more so than other places, but most cities are known to excell in something. If you recall, a while back, Rochester was a big Tel Com city with Rochester Tel, and the aggressive management program produced a swath of new companies. (One leading to another disaster just like this)
I believe what the 18,000 jobs mean is jobs and the companies that are tied to optics. It could mean a secretary, or cleaner, but their jobs really are tied to the success of the company. Included in that number is also Kodak, Xerox, and they ARE both mostly optics companies. There's also companies like Bausch and Lomb which has about 1000 local employees making contact lenses. CooperVision is another 1000+ employer in the optics business. There's about 9000 jobs with 4 companies. That leaves about 9000 jobs spread over about 60 jobs (150). I also believe UR and RIT employ researchers doing optics, and both have optics degree programs as does MCC. Haven't any support jobs, contract workers or spin off jobs.
Who knows what the real number is, but there is no question optics is a large segment of our economy, more so than other places, but most cities are known to excel in something. If you recall, a while back, Rochester was a big Tel Com city with Rochester Tel, and the aggressive management program produced a swath of new companies. (One leading to another disaster just like this)
Unless there was a 180* turn, since I retired, close to 13 years ago, Kodak is no longer in the optics business. They sold off their "consumer optics" business in 2004 (the previously mentioned business now known as RPO), and their primary "government contract" optics business, to ITT Industries (later ITT Exelus, then Harris, now L3Harris), also in 2004. So while there are still people employed by those two businesses, I'm pretty sure that their combined employment today, doesn't add up to what they were as part of EK, back at their peak employment levels in the mid 80s.
I never knew Xerox to have an optics shop of it's own, at least to any great degree. Their only need for optical components would be for their copiers, as far as I know, and that a pretty limited need, to where you'd set up your own fabrication shop. Yes, EK manufactured it's own optical components for it's copiers, but it was a "no brainer", since the production capability was already in place.
There are also well known, long established specialty optical shops such as Stefan-Sydor, JML, and Tropel, but again, they're relatively small shops, with under 200 employees, for the most part. My point, not that it matters all that much, is that I find it hard to believe that 18,000 people are employed in the optics field in Rochester, ESPECIALLY when it was hinted at the photonics startups comprised a large number of those employees.
Unless there was a 180* turn, since I retired, close to 13 years ago, Kodak is no longer in the optics business. They sold off their "consumer optics" business in 2004 (the previously mentioned business now known as RPO), and their primary "government contract" optics business, to ITT Industries (later ITT Exelus, then Harris, now L3Harris), also in 2004. So while there are still people employed by those two businesses, I'm pretty sure that their combined employment today, doesn't add up to what they were as part of EK, back at their peak employment levels in the mid 80s.
I never knew Xerox to have an optics shop of it's own, at least to any great degree. Their only need for optical components would be for their copiers, as far as I know, and that a pretty limited need, to where you'd set up your own fabrication shop. Yes, EK manufactured it's own optical components for it's copiers, but it was a "no brainer", since the production capability was already in place.
There are also well known, long established specialty optical shops such as Stefan-Sydor, JML, and Tropel, but again, they're relatively small shops, with under 200 employees, for the most part. My point, not that it matters all that much, is that I find it hard to believe that 18,000 people are employed in the optics field in Rochester, ESPECIALLY when it was hinted at the photonics startups comprised a large number of those employees.
So, that's 4,200 employees just between these 2 companies. It may not be what it was in the mid 80's, but that is still a significant number of employees between the 2.
I'm no engineer, but I think the optics technology of a XEROX, KODAK/Heidelberg is quite significant, but that's just me. There is a company in Victor that makes tiny motors used in focusing the lens in a cell phone camera. Would you consider that an optics company?
So, that's 4,200 employees just between these 2 companies. It may not be what it was in the mid 80's, but that is still a significant number of employees between the 2.
L3Harris may have 3900 employees in Rochester, but I believe that the employees that are directly involved with optics production is probably around 200. And many of RPO's 300 people are what's left of the 1200, or so, that formerly worked for EK's optics division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRocks
I'm no engineer, but I think the optics technology of a XEROX, KODAK/Heidelberg is quite significant, but that's just me. There is a company in Victor that makes tiny motors used in focusing the lens in a cell phone camera. Would you consider that an optics company?
I'm not sure of what exactly happened with EK's former copier division, as it was initally sold off to Danka, in 1996. Then, a short time later, the deal soured, and somehow or other, Heidelberg got involved, but by then, I had moved on to other duties. Having said that, I'm not sure what the EK/Heidelberg group would have done for any new optical components they may have needed, as their original source was the EK shop that was sold off to RPO, and I don't think that there was the provision to re-open a shop for the limited number of parts that they'd need.
Are there any Rochester companies that have gone into stereolithography?
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