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To be quite honest, I'd like to see that list, too. Kodak, with the largest optics shop in the area, in the past, employed about 1200 people in that division of the company. At the time of the optics group's final dissolution, many of the employees were retirement eligible, therefore they simply dropped out of the workforce, rather than "go somewhere else to work", or form a new company.
Yes, Kodak's optics business, after a couple of "downsizings", was sold off to an investor, who named the business 'Rochester Precision Optics' (RPO), but to the best of my knowledge, they do not employ anywhere near the 1200 people that Kodak did at their peak, in the 70s through the 90s. There were a few other optics shops in Rochester that may have employed up to 200-250 people, but they were few and far between. And yes, there are several others that employ 25-30 people, but even so, add them all up, and their employment numbers are probably in the neighborhood of 2000-2500 people, total.
And for the sake of clarification, I'm not talking about eyeglasses or contact lenses.
To be quite honest, I'd like to see that list, too. Kodak, with the largest optics shop in the area, in the past, employed about 1200 people in that division of the company. At the time of the optics group's final dissolution, many of the employees were retirement eligible, therefore they simply dropped out of the workforce, rather than "go somewhere else to work", or form a new company.
Yes, Kodak's optics business, after a couple of "downsizings", was sold off to an investor, who named the business 'Rochester Precision Optics' (RPO), but to the best of my knowledge, they do not employ anywhere near the 1200 people that Kodak did at their peak, in the 70s through the 90s. There were a few other optics shops in Rochester that may have employed up to 200-250 people, but they were few and far between. And yes, there are several others that employ 25-30 people, but even so, add them all up, and their employment numbers are probably in the neighborhood of 2000-2500 people, total.
And for the sake of clarification, I'm not talking about eyeglasses or contact lenses.
Well, it was eye glasses that started it all.
None the less, here's this
"Altogether there are over 100 companies in the Rochester NY and Finger Lakes region for whom optics, photonics, and lasers are a central part of the business."
"ckht", thanks for posting that article, as it provides a serious amount of information, even if it's somewhat "buried". I'm sure that given a number of post that I've put up, some might consider me a "glass half empty" kind of a guy. I prefer to think of myself as a realist.
For example, the information provided on the linked charts, goes by the heading of optics and imaging companies. While this is indeed true, it also encompasses employment statistics that I wasn't referring to, in my previous posts. What I was getting at, were the numbers of workers that actually have a hand in producing optical elements, such as lenses and coated optics, such as high reflectivity mirrors. Given that criteria, the numbers posted in the attached chart can change drastically.
For instance, the chart leads off with L3Harris employing a little over 3000 people, in the Rochester area. While that number is indeed true, the number of L3 employees that are actually "on the shop floor", working on optical components, is around 100. (I know this as fact) Xerox is listed in the #2 position, with 3000 employees. Again, while this overall number is most likely true, to the best of my knowledge, Xerox had only a small, on-site shop that created optical parts for its own copiers.
Eastman Kodak is #3 on the list, but they no longer have ANY optical production capability. They initially "downsized" their optics production, from the 1200 people that I mentioned earlier in this topic, and later sold it off, in basically 2 divisions, one to ITT Industries, which eventually became part of L3Harris, and the other portion to Rochester Precision Optics, which is #12 on the attached list.
The other two "big hitters" on the list are Corning and Optimax, each with 300, or so, employees, followed by the smaller shops that have 100 or less employees. This is why I'm very skeptical, when I hear of the THOUSANDS of jobs, in optics, that are within the Rochester area. Yes, there a fair number of jobs that are "imaging related", in the Rochester area, but when you boil it down to "producing optical components", that number drops dramatically.
Kodak, back in it's heydays, had it's Hawk Eye facility, that could make high quality, high volume lenses, literally, from scratch. They were able to create high quality, optical glass mixtures, in its first floor "glass plant", then cut this glass into small cubes, re-form those cubes into lens blanks, then grind, polish, and optically coat those lenses, all housed in one location, on St. Paul Street. I highly doubt that you'll ever see a facility like that ever again, especially in Rochester.
I sold my house in Amherst for 240k and the taxes were $8400 including school. That's a lot more than the 2.5% mentioned in the original post. As soon as I listed, it they raised the assessment. The house sold for less and they didn't lower the assessment.
I sold my house in Amherst for 240k and the taxes were $8400 including school. That's a lot more than the 2.5% mentioned in the original post. As soon as I listed, it they raised the assessment. The house sold for less and they didn't lower the assessment.
The 2.5% is due to how property taxes vary by homeowner. For instance, my parents property taxes are half of that and in a well regarded school district. So, it will depend on the homeowner, as some may or may not get the exemptions that others get or it comes down to the municipality, among other factors.
In this case, you have to consider that home prices are lower compared to other areas, including many in the South. So, that plays a part as to why the property tax rate(key word) is higher.
"ckht", thanks for posting that article, as it provides a serious amount of information, even if it's somewhat "buried". I'm sure that given a number of post that I've put up, some might consider me a "glass half empty" kind of a guy. I prefer to think of myself as a realist.
For example, the information provided on the linked charts, goes by the heading of optics and imaging companies. While this is indeed true, it also encompasses employment statistics that I wasn't referring to, in my previous posts. What I was getting at, were the numbers of workers that actually have a hand in producing optical elements, such as lenses and coated optics, such as high reflectivity mirrors. Given that criteria, the numbers posted in the attached chart can change drastically.
For instance, the chart leads off with L3Harris employing a little over 3000 people, in the Rochester area. While that number is indeed true, the number of L3 employees that are actually "on the shop floor", working on optical components, is around 100. (I know this as fact) Xerox is listed in the #2 position, with 3000 employees. Again, while this overall number is most likely true, to the best of my knowledge, Xerox had only a small, on-site shop that created optical parts for its own copiers.
Eastman Kodak is #3 on the list, but they no longer have ANY optical production capability. They initially "downsized" their optics production, from the 1200 people that I mentioned earlier in this topic, and later sold it off, in basically 2 divisions, one to ITT Industries, which eventually became part of L3Harris, and the other portion to Rochester Precision Optics, which is #12 on the attached list.
The other two "big hitters" on the list are Corning and Optimax, each with 300, or so, employees, followed by the smaller shops that have 100 or less employees. This is why I'm very skeptical, when I hear of the THOUSANDS of jobs, in optics, that are within the Rochester area. Yes, there a fair number of jobs that are "imaging related", in the Rochester area, but when you boil it down to "producing optical components", that number drops dramatically.
Kodak, back in it's heydays, had it's Hawk Eye facility, that could make high quality, high volume lenses, literally, from scratch. They were able to create high quality, optical glass mixtures, in its first floor "glass plant", then cut this glass into small cubes, re-form those cubes into lens blanks, then grind, polish, and optically coat those lenses, all housed in one location, on St. Paul Street. I highly doubt that you'll ever see a facility like that ever again, especially in Rochester.
I understand what you are saying, except that is how industries are bundled. It would do the companies and Rochester in general a disservice to only list those "on the floor" when every other company reports total employment. If you think about it, without R&D, sales, accounts receivable, payroll, HR, etc, the whole thing falls apart. These are mostly small companies who have no room for luxuries.
Missing from that list were lots of small companies, and don't forget UR's lasers and the fact that at least 3 local universities have Optic programs.
"Altogether there are over 100 companies in the Rochester NY and Finger Lakes region for whom optics, photonics, and lasers are a central part of the business."
There might be 20 or so left in Monroe County, and I'm being generous. Private optics firms, both lenses and optical components, the parts/subassemblies which contain the lenses.
I understand what you are saying, except that is how industries are bundled. It would do the companies and Rochester in general a disservice to only list those "on the floor" when every other company reports total employment. If you think about it, without R&D, sales, accounts receivable, payroll, HR, etc, the whole thing falls apart. These are mostly small companies who have no room for luxuries.
Missing from that list were lots of small companies, and don't forget UR's lasers and the fact that at least 3 local universities have Optic programs.
"ckht", thanks for posting that article, as it provides a serious amount of information, even if it's somewhat "buried". I'm sure that given a number of post that I've put up, some might consider me a "glass half empty" kind of a guy. I prefer to think of myself as a realist.
For example, the information provided on the linked charts, goes by the heading of optics and imaging companies. While this is indeed true, it also encompasses employment statistics that I wasn't referring to, in my previous posts. What I was getting at, were the numbers of workers that actually have a hand in producing optical elements, such as lenses and coated optics, such as high reflectivity mirrors. Given that criteria, the numbers posted in the attached chart can change drastically.
For instance, the chart leads off with L3Harris employing a little over 3000 people, in the Rochester area. While that number is indeed true, the number of L3 employees that are actually "on the shop floor", working on optical components, is around 100. (I know this as fact) Xerox is listed in the #2 position, with 3000 employees. Again, while this overall number is most likely true, to the best of my knowledge, Xerox had only a small, on-site shop that created optical parts for its own copiers.
Eastman Kodak is #3 on the list, but they no longer have ANY optical production capability. They initially "downsized" their optics production, from the 1200 people that I mentioned earlier in this topic, and later sold it off, in basically 2 divisions, one to ITT Industries, which eventually became part of L3Harris, and the other portion to Rochester Precision Optics, which is #12 on the attached list.
The other two "big hitters" on the list are Corning and Optimax, each with 300, or so, employees, followed by the smaller shops that have 100 or less employees. This is why I'm very skeptical, when I hear of the THOUSANDS of jobs, in optics, that are within the Rochester area. Yes, there a fair number of jobs that are "imaging related", in the Rochester area, but when you boil it down to "producing optical components", that number drops dramatically.
Kodak, back in it's heydays, had it's Hawk Eye facility, that could make high quality, high volume lenses, literally, from scratch. They were able to create high quality, optical glass mixtures, in its first floor "glass plant", then cut this glass into small cubes, re-form those cubes into lens blanks, then grind, polish, and optically coat those lenses, all housed in one location, on St. Paul Street. I highly doubt that you'll ever see a facility like that ever again, especially in Rochester.
My grandfather worked at Hawkeye, in the 40's and 50's, lens polishing dept. Commuted back and forth with a co-worker, they lived in Canandaigua. A video on RPO's website shows Kodak's Hawkeye lens operations, ca. mid-50's. RPO was started by an ex-Kodak employee or employees, they ended up with some of the equipment from Kodak.
Direct-labor optics employment around Rochester is under 2000, guaranteed. Support, management, HR, shipping and receiving, etc., might be another 2000 or so.
The media and chamber of commerce types puff up the impact optics has on the economy there, it's smaller than they report. One report some years ago put the numbers in optics at 17,000. I laughed at that one, plus the push for photonics which went over like a lead balloon.
Wasn't long ago optics companies there were "poaching" employees, in groups, from each other. Reminds me of orthopedics and other manufacturing work I've done, **** off enough of the good help, and voila, 10 people from one department you can't afford to have quit, all quit on the same Friday, and end up at a competitor. There are 3 optical components co's I know of there, revolving doors for help, really. Maybe 17 or so lens suppliers. All have experienced the poaching issues for some years. I have stories...
20 years ago, MCC had three students in their optics program, at the time grads were walking into jobs paying north of $50K/year. I can't imagne there's much interest in their AAS program, it's rigorous, not dummy school work. Lots of math, physics, applied physics, ray optics study, etc. Throw in questionable job security, quite frankly I'd recommend smart Optics grads from there go to work for DoD contractors or their Tier 1 suppliers. Only direct supplier for such work I know of there is Harris. Techs at the UofR laser lab do well I guess.
Point being re: that specific industry, the environment for it to remain to be successful there is a weak one, being that it's in NY, and frankly I doubt the local politicians really care. The industry has two great institutions for local support, MCC and UofR, the former was so lacking in support for their great tech degree programs the school almost pulled the plug on all of them. SUNY and the county are responsible for funding for MCC, either directly or the handling of funds from the feds, etc.
Stable employment is a huge factor when folks consider settling in an area, as is affordable housing. Absent stable employment, peope start to look around and wonder if they're going to make it where they live. All that said, there are several optics firms in that area which are pretty solid and, most importantly, offer career growth.
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