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I always wanted to avoid HOAs and land with covenants and restrictions.
To avoid those nosy types that want to tell you how your shed should look like your house, aesthetic guidelines and other regulations.
I've looked for unrestricted land, which gets harder and harder to find these days and is more valuable. But now I think my next house should be in HOA and land should have covenants/deed restrictions (my neighbors land too). Not the micromanaging type of HOA/subdivision which regulates every aspect of your property but something rural, with few and reasonable restrictions.
Why should I agree to have restrictions on my land?
1) The nutty people let their dogs run all over other people's properties a lot in unrestricted areas and feel like they're entitled to this. This can create problems for any of your own animals and get them killed. This can chase game off your property. I also don't want to be harassed by dogs on my property, woken up by a dog barking by my window nightly, etc. Not to even mention any liability that might arise if their dog bites a guest or worker on your land.
I might have to shoot their dog in pursuit of my animals and then I possibly have to deal with revengeful nutjob owner and bringing cops upon them. Or I have to deal with animal control and haul the dog off to the pound.
I want to have HOA to deal with these unsavory types who don't respect other's properties.
Or, at least, to have subdivision deed restrictions to give me legal instrument to protect from dogs at large, since only few states have this written into law.
2) I don't want people dumping unsightly piles of junk, trash, construction materials from their business and whatever, in common sight, or ruining my view, and burn these toxic junk piles. This is normally banned through covenants.
3) I don't want dilapidated, collapsing abandoned mobile homes next to me, especially if they're looking like meth lab explosion aftermath. This is not allowed by covenants, usually. These things look like a horror movie.
4) Don't want to have noisy business next to me. If it's a discreet business, like someone working online, that's fine, but something like a welding, carpentry, auto shop, junk yard, a lumber mill, furniture business, pig farm, etc, no thanks. HOA covenants usually prohibit business activity. If someone runs discreet (no parties) short term rental with 1 guesthouse, it's fine, but if they want to run a campground or party houses...that's a no. Quiet enjoyment of one's property is what covenants usually protect.
5) Setbacks for construction should be met to avoid blocking view and unsightly situations, thanks to covenants, if parcels aren't large or you might find yourself staring into 4000sq ft metal shop wall one day.
6) HOA often provides common services like water coop, road clearing, common lake/pond, that's nice to have.
Overall, as much as I wanted unrestricted land before I think I'm now a big fan of HOAs.
I'm also a woman living alone, and being from Europe I got foreign accent even though I moved decades ago (and people often don't like "outsiders") - thus I have extra safety concerns in case of dispute with a disrespectful neighbor who's violating my peaceful enjoyment and don't want to worry about them damaging my house, property, shooting me, etc - I like the idea of HOA as a legal entity being on my side, or at least the law being on my side due to covenants.
With unrestricted land you can do almost whatever you want...but your neighbors can do the same, and not all are going to be respectful of everyone's right to peace, quiet and safety on their own property.
HOA do have their problems...but got to say they do more good than bad overall, to think of it.
HOAs seem to get very bad rap...but yet there're so many of them and most new land on the market has covenants and restrictions. This is good and helps to preserve the nice character of the area.
Meh.
Many of your concerns are covered by city/county zoning and ordinances anyway.
HOA codes and regs can can and do change over time, sometimes without your knowledge if you are not involved.
Vindictive, crazy neighbors can and do use HOA enforcement as a weapon.
My last house was in an HOA where membership was voluntary. I'm sure you can guess how that went--no money, no enforcement of anything at any time. Best HOA ever.
There are many rural developments and HOAs that don't have any 'dues'. Having covenants and a HOA where there are no HOA dues is basically useless, as they have no ability to force anyone to do anything with no funds to back it.
I'd never live in a subdivision. County ordinances are far less intrusive. My nearest neighbors is a half mile away. They're very -pleasant people. Subdivisions, with multiple rules, restrictions, and other interfering behavior are for those who can't afford better properties.
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Virtually everyone here has one or more dogs as well as other pets. Rescues are common. You'd hate it here. I'd hate being your neighbor.
I've had numerous neighbor dogs as guests, some on a regular basis. They're always welcome.
Funny, the underlined is so smug, and false. What are "Better properties" is a personal choice, not YOU get to define for everyone. I'm sure someone living in a Manhattan Penthouse will disagree that living in Wyoming is preferable.
HOA's can be great, or some say, a nightmare. Often the local codes restrict many things that people are concerned about, so check up on those, such as loose dogs, etc., an HOA is not needed to control this behavior.
HOA's are great though for a community pool when you don't want to put in one for just yourself, perhaps you don't use it often enough to justify the cost. Perhaps you like having a community clubhouse, or close neighbors for more interaction, especially if you live alone like the OP. Then HOA's may be ideal.
I don't like myself people who park cars on their lawn, or store a huge RV on the side of the house blocking their neighbor's views from their windows, things like that.
All very good reasons to want to be in an HOA. They aren't all bad. Furthermore, if you're interested, become active in the HOA. Run for the board... have a say.
Some HOAs are better than others. Some need to approve your paint colors... some, like my own, only manage common property like the private road. They run the full range of restrictiveness. Read the Bylaws! Read the recent meeting minutes to find out anything that has been going on.
Yes, HOAs vary both in the actual rules and in how well they enforce them. We ruled out all but one of them because they required that the house minimum size be larger than we wanted, and because they also required that garages be “subordinate” to the “master” building (the house), meaning the garage had to be smaller. I wanted the exact opposite, and that oppositeness is very common in rural areas IF NOT in HOA subdivision. There were also ridiculous restrictions on fencing, architectural approval, and other details.
The only HOA subdivision that was even close to palatable did not have the land we wanted.
At one of the subdivisions where we looked at an existing house for sale, it turned out that loose dogs were enough of a problem that someone supposedly shot at them. And he was ostracized. We ruled out that place for other reasons, but the dog problem alone would have been an automatic DQ. I overheard someone from a huge subdivision in the next (also mostly rural) county talking about the scourge of loose dogs there, despite rules against dogs at large.
There are dogs running loose in our county outside of HOA places, but everyone knows the owner risks having the dog either taken to the shelter or simply SSS. It really is up to neighbors what they will tolerate on their own land. As one person said it, “If the dog is on your land, it’s your dog. If it’s on my land, it’s my dog and I’ll do what I want with it.” Which doesn’t necessarily mean killing it, but it might.
In other words, the HOA might or might not mean freedom from other people’s intrusive dogs. And lack of HOA might not mean everyone wants dog trespasses (especially if they have their own animals).
BTW, in this state, RE brokers don’t have to supply potential buyers the covenants. I explicitly requested all the ones for any HOA subdivision we looked at. Do this BEFORE even bothering to look at the place.
Not living in an HOA ever again. The last two houses I bought I specifically told the real estate agen NO HOA’s. I looked at all the surrounding properties as I drove through the neighborhood when I bought my last house. No dogs running loose and no chop shops in anyones yard. Those issues can all be mitigated with due diligence. Had a new neighbor buy the property on my backside. Unfortunately they liked to burn stuff. I talked to them about it. It persisted. So I called the fire department. Burn permits are required. They got fined three times and then had a lifetime burn permit ban issued against them. Another neighbor called the police on their unleashed dogs. They put their house up for sale and moved 3 months later. They told another neighbor they thought if you lived in the “country” you could do whatever you want. My other eclectic neighbors are great. Even the ones that painted their house funky colors. It’s a great landmark when giving directions. No HOA’s for me.
Not living in an HOA ever again. The last two houses I bought I specifically told the real estate agen NO HOA’s. I looked at all the surrounding properties as I drove through the neighborhood when I bought my last house. No dogs running loose and no chop shops in anyones yard. Those issues can all be mitigated with due diligence. Had a new neighbor buy the property on my backside. Unfortunately they liked to burn stuff. I talked to them about it. It persisted. So I called the fire department. Burn permits are required. They got fined three times and then had a lifetime burn permit ban issued against them. Another neighbor called the police on their unleashed dogs. They put their house up for sale and moved 3 months later. They told another neighbor they thought if you lived in the “country” you could do whatever you want. My other eclectic neighbors are great. Even the ones that painted their house funky colors. It’s a great landmark when giving directions. No HOA’s for me.
Your story is a fine example of a bad neighbor and the local ordinances that can stop those behaviors, outside of an HOA neighborhood. Idiot neighbors can be found anywhere. Local ordinances can stop some of the bad behaviors like that burning and dogs. HOA's though can take it a step further if local ordinances are weak or unenforced, and many people like HOA's specifically for that reason alone.
HOA's usually have fees, and that's what people don't like. But maintaining private roads, community areas, and some common decency laws, are not the nightmare that a few over-reaching HOA's bylaws might have, such as what color you can paint your house.
So you said not living in an HOA ever again, where's the HOA story?
When I was looking for property, the first requirement was NO COVENANTS. Non negotiable.
I turned down a very nice ranch, no buildings, but a very usable piece of land for that reason. I told the realtor, "remove the covenant clause and I'll buy it now." He refused, so I kept looking.
The ranch I did buy is better. House, barn, shop, solar system, well with cistern, nearest neighbors are a mile and a half away, on the other 3 sides no neighbors within 5 miles. I love it!!!!
It's all agricultural ground, I can hunt my place and 2 neighbors, so there's roughly 5000 acres of huntable land just outside my door.
Nobody bothers me, and I don't bother them. My dogs are working dogs and are out all the time but stay on my land. We did have one blue tick hound show up, we caught him and notified the sheriff. When the owner called the sheriff that the dog was missing, he told them where it was, they came and got him, no problem.
I don't always agree with Happy in Wyoming, but this time, he's right on the money. Why settle for something where some idiot tells you what you can or can't do on your land, and charges you money to Lord it over you?
Castlelake, I totally agree and get what you’re saying. HOA’s are looked at with suspicion but in the right circumstances, can save you from all the headaches you mentioned.
I’ve been amazed at the equine communities with sensible restrictions, yet allowing residents to have a good amount of freedom. It’s down to reading the covenants and liking them or not. An HOA that forbids everything you brought up, while allowing you to keep chickens, is a win win.
I really dislike covenants! BUT....majority of people are idiots and could care less about others right to peaceful life, especially when it comes to dogs.
We've actually lived on land we developed into few lot, county subdivisions in two different counties for the last twenty years. Being that we developed the larger lot sized subdivisions in the counties and allowing equines, we did place basic covenants on them to keep our property value up.
Things like no trash, construction debris piles past normal building construction. No unlicensed vehicles parked and basically abandoned. No established shooting ranges, etc.
I could tell one heck of a story about my current neighbor from hell and his two dogs but won't. His dogs and him are the reason we bought remote property last year, surrounded by large ranches on three sides and away from anyone.
Unlike the majority of people today, I'd rather be outside doing something most of the day. I also can't stand dogs barking, non stop all day long. I'm perfectly fine with friendly dogs that find their way onto our property. We have equine however and I will put a bad dog down immediately if my equines don't before I have the chance.
Everyone should have the right to a peaceful life!
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