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I have always lived in a suburban environment, but we have some camping land in a very rural area. I am curious if there's a difference in attitudes, regarding suburban feelings about dogs and cats, and rural attitudes?
I'm well aware that lots of times, dogs and cats have 'jobs' in rural environments. Barn cats keep the rodent population down, and dogs herd, and guard sheep and cattle, etc. I get it, don't have a problem with it
BUT...IS it a general thing to let dogs roam all over the place? Not just all over YOUR own property...but just roam in general?
I ask, because where our camping land is, we have a Facebook group page, and apparently there is a farmer who lives close by, and he continually lets his dog(s) (a mother and puppies) roam, and they roam onto other people's property who then get on Facebook and complain about it.
It seems that one of the property owners has taken the mother dog and several of the puppies to a dog rescue organization, but it caused a controversy and one lady tried to defend the idea of just letting dogs roam, saying it's been happening for years and years, and that's just how it is in the country. You let your dogs and cats go wherever they want to go. And she was chiding the property owner who gathered up the mom and pups, saying that the property owner was basically stealing these dogs.
Is this classic misunderstanding of the differences between country life and city life...or is this particular lady wrong, or was the property owner wrong for gathering up the mother and puppies and taking them to a shelter?
If I wasn't clear, the mom and pups were continually showing up on the property owner's property, looking for food and attention.
I have my prejudice on this...but really, I'm just curious on what the attitude on this might be. And I don't feel judgy about it...just wondering.
I live in a rural area in a county that has a lot of people from other places moving in. Residents who have lived here for a long time don't want newcomers trying to change things. New residents are often uncomfortable with the area traditions. There is conflict.
In my area, tradition does not require dogs to stay on owners' properties. There is also no county law requiring it. A person who dislikes other residents' dogs visiting their property must either adapt to the tradition or find a way to deal with it. A person could talk to the dog owner, which doesn't usually stop the dog-wandering. A person could get county law enforcement to speak to the dog owner, even though there's no law. The person you mentioned who tried to deal with wandering dogs by taking them to a rescue operation probably didn't find any other alternative that worked. I imagine that tactic works if the owner is required to pay money to retrieve their dog.
One problem I see is with working dogs. For example, a livestock guard dog is never going to just hang out close to the house. It is likely to wander a bit.
One way I have heard of folks deterring wandering dogs is with deterrent (electrical) fencing or the like.
Other ways this rural tradition versus newcomer conflict arises is with barking dogs or other noisy animals, and with rural traditions of gun target practice and even small explosive use (for fun).
Law enforcement intervention is generally not useful unless there is property damage or physical harm involved.
In the rural area I lived in back several years ago your dogs and cats could run free under your control... on your property. Maybe a neighbor who knew you and your dog/cat wouldn't worry too much if Barky or Scruffy came for a visit. You might get a call, or the next time you see them they will mention the visit. But, any neighbor, including us, would shoot any dog that chased or barked at livestock or deer/elk, or cats that sprayed on a car's tires or side of a house. No one I ever heard from complained, because it was common that you train your own dogs not to leave the property. Cats that wandered didn't last long anyway. Sometimes you'd run into a neighbor at the grocery store or gas station and they say something like: Barky ran off and haven't seen him for a few days... guess he gone. That's about it.
I live in a rural area in a county that has a lot of people from other places moving in. Residents who have lived here for a long time don't want newcomers trying to change things. New residents are often uncomfortable with the area traditions. There is conflict.
In my area, tradition does not require dogs to stay on owners' properties. There is also no county law requiring it. A person who dislikes other residents' dogs visiting their property must either adapt to the tradition or find a way to deal with it. A person could talk to the dog owner, which doesn't usually stop the dog-wandering. A person could get county law enforcement to speak to the dog owner, even though there's no law. The person you mentioned who tried to deal with wandering dogs by taking them to a rescue operation probably didn't find any other alternative that worked. I imagine that tactic works if the owner is required to pay money to retrieve their dog.
One problem I see is with working dogs. For example, a livestock guard dog is never going to just hang out close to the house. It is likely to wander a bit.
One way I have heard of folks deterring wandering dogs is with deterrent (electrical) fencing or the like.
Other ways this rural tradition versus newcomer conflict arises is with barking dogs or other noisy animals, and with rural traditions of gun target practice and even small explosive use (for fun).
Law enforcement intervention is generally not useful unless there is property damage or physical harm involved.
You have hit lots of nails on their heads. :-)
Our camping lot is in a development that has lots of camping lots, and some people who live there full time. We have had our camping lot (and go there often) for about 12 years, but with the pandemic, a LOT of new people bought lots, campers, etc. They are new, and they often act like everyone should change for them, and they complain about EVERYTHING you mentioned. LOL Someone shot a gun, someone is letting their dog bark continually, etc. Plus...we have a thievery problem...probably like most of these types of developments do.
And law enforcement is a constant issue out there, because it IS rural, and the development is about 20 miles to the nearest town, so you're just not going to get a fast response from LEO. We USED to have a county sheriff assigned to our development but he's not here anymore. I don't know why. We do, however, have a security team and a group of volunteers that drive around to check on people's property.
It must vary by area. I've lived in farm country al of my life and the local farmers would shoot any dog annoying livestock and if you allowed your cat to wander around it would soon be eaten by a coyote.
The problem with dogs running loose was all caused by city folks who moved out to the country and thought that as soon as they got to the country, they could do whatever they wanted with no restrictions. So their kids and animals all caused a lot of problems. Until the coyotes killed their pets and then problem solved about the stray dogs and cats and loose goats. The coyotes never killed the kids, so they continued to be a noisy destructive nuisance.
Is this classic misunderstanding of the differences between country life and city life...or is this particular lady wrong, or was the property owner wrong for gathering up the mother and puppies and taking them to a shelter?
No. Most of us who live rural aren't uneducated hicks with passels of unfixed critters hanging 'round the back door.
Edit:
Quote:
It seems that one of the property owners has taken the mother dog and several of the puppies to a dog rescue organization, but it caused a controversy and one lady tried to defend the idea of just letting dogs roam, saying it's been happening for years and years, and that's just how it is in the country. You let your dogs and cats go wherever they want to go. And she was chiding the property owner who gathered up the mom and pups, saying that the property owner was basically stealing these dogs.
It would be interesting to know how long the woman who tried to defend the practice had actually lived in the area. This is a very atypical stance among those who live around livestock. As far as whether the other woman was technically stealing the dogs, that depends on whose property they were on when she gathered them up and took them to the rescue.
There might be circumstances that the Facebook crowd isn't aware of. The mother dog may have been dumped at the farm by a city person, leaving the farmer on the hook. This happens a lot. People think that anyone with rural property, especially farmers, will gladly take their unwanted pets. Edit: and even if this particular dog wasn't dumped, the chances are good that any random domestic pet you happen to see roaming in a rural area was indeed dumped by a city dweller.
I do recall my grandparents' border collies having the run of their farm, but it was all fenced. There were barn cats, including some really old ones.
I agree with OWS that city people who move to the country are more likely to let their animals run loose.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-14-2022 at 08:55 PM..
Look up "S S S" Technically, a depredation permit is required to eliminate pests, but individual pest animals can be removed at will, and any farmer will have a back lot or a backhoe.
Where I live, statistically the most dangerous animals are dog packs, followed by wild boars. Coyotes are a far distant third.
There is a neighbor dog who has a limited territory that includes part of my land - no big deal as he recognizes me as part of that territory. He serves as a protector. When hunting dogs have escaped pens and been loose, I have been able to use common commands to get them to go home (Good hunting dogs are NOT dumb!). Otherwise, I am always armed when outside on my property.
Feral cats get a pass here because of their impact on moles, voles, and mice, but between coyotes, foxes, and hawks I have never seen one last for more than about two years at most. Even bobcats have short lives.
Any city dweller going to the country and allowing a pet to roam here is... (being kind) about to be smacked in the face with the reality of life and death in country life.
There are established ecosystems in the country. Household pets might survive for a while, but I have never seen an individual stray dog more than a couple of times. The question of ethics gets resolved so quickly by nature that it isn't an issue.
Look up "S S S" Technically, a depredation permit is required to eliminate pests, but individual pest animals can be removed at will, and any farmer will have a back lot or a backhoe.
If this was directed at me, it's probably because I wasn't clear enough in my response to this post:
Quote:
A person who dislikes other residents' dogs visiting their property must either adapt to the tradition or find a way to deal with it. .
When I remarked that this isn't the norm anywhere I've lived, I was referencing the adapt to the "tradition" comment. It's never been a tradition where I've lived, and no one I know has ever adapted to it or otherwise considered it a normal part of rural life. We all know what can happen to loose dogs that chase livestock.
Dogs in rural areas can be working dog, sheerly pet, or a mix.
The difference from suburban dogs is that there ARE some working dogs in the country. But not all of them are.
Also, suburban dogs are almost always spayed or neutered. There are an awful lot of unfixed dogs and cats in rural areas, and it isn’t because of that old stereotype about needing more working animals. They are unfixed because so many people don’t want to pay for the procedures.
Dogs at large are not kindly regarded due to their tendency to harass livestock and poultry. The people I’ve heard saying they let their dogs roam moved FROM cities or suburbs.
Some areas have laws against dogs at large. Enforcement can be difficult, but frankly, the trespassing dog is sometimes killed so no need to call the sheriff’s office.
Last edited by pikabike; 06-14-2022 at 11:25 PM..
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