El Dorado County property tax base transfer (San Diego, San Jose: fit in, apartment)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Elliott_CA

Prop 13 is a bad law and is grossly unfair to younger homeowners. When the Supreme Court upheld Prop 13 they said Prop 13 is "distasteful and unwise" and despite their opposition to it they were forced to uphold it because they had no Constitutional basis to overturn the will of the voters.

Just because a law is popular does not make it good. It's a bad law because it breaks the relationship between the tax charged and the cost of services rendered. A young family just starting out with a starter home has to pay a disproportionate amount of tax compared to their neighbors and that's wrong.

There are other mechanisms that could be used to keep seniors from losing homes due to swings in the real estate market that would be more equitable than Prop 13.

Of course there are mechanisms that could have been used... one was already in place and it was simple... index the Home Owner Exemption for inflation... about as simple as could be.

The $7500 exemption really meant something when a modest home in much of California cost 10 to 15k... means very little went a home is 15 to 20 times as much.

The legislature was happy to let the voters decide... at least this is what they said NEVER believing it would ever become law or remain law.

Thousands of pages of Property Tax rules and regulations tossed out by a simple few paragraphs that just about anyone that can read can understand...

If your premise is true... I as the youngest person in my neighborhood and paying the highest dollar amount of property tax should be against Prop 13... right?

The difference is I am willing to bide my time and pay my dues and in 30 to 40 years fully expect to be the one with the lower rate.

One more point... NOT A SINGLE ONE of my neighbors have children in the schools... most don't even have grandchildren in school... school is the single biggest drain on property tax for most. They are just about all 80 plus with some 100 and still living in their homes for 60+ years. It is the young families with kids that use the most in services...

The 80+ year old retired couple I bought my house from in 2003 built my home in 1958... they were paying $1200 a year on property tax... the moment I bought the property tax went to $8800... which I fully expected and is another benefit of Prop 13 and that is making Property Tax predictable.

Going back to the way things were is a horrible idea... people would be taxed on what someone else "Thinks" their home might be worth... how insane is that?

Why do two people pay different sales tax on the same new Pickup Truck when both trucks are identical? The reason is one got 10k off sticker through promotions and negotiation skills and the other paid sticker... same truck same day and vastly different selling prices...

Again... the only "FAIR" thing is for each transaction to stand on it's own... and this is precisely what Prop 13 does.

[Elliott_CA]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Again... the only "FAIR" thing is for each transaction to stand on it's own... and this is precisely what Prop 13 does.

No, that doesn't make it "fair." The fact that Joe only paid $100,000 for his house 30 years ago bears no relation to what government services costs today. And whether or not people have kids in school or not is irrelevant, the entire population benefits from an educated population -- schools are not paid for with user fees and should not be.

Thanks for your views but the Supreme Court is on record as saying Prop 13 stinks and they held their noses when they upheld it. That tells me what I need to know.

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by Elliott_CA

No, that doesn't make it "fair." The fact that Joe only paid $100,000 for his house 30 years ago bears no relation to what government services costs today. And whether or not people have kids in school or not is irrelevant, the entire population benefits from an educated population -- schools are not paid for with user fees and should not be.

Thanks for your views but the Supreme Court is on record as saying Prop 13 stinks and they held their noses when they upheld it. That tells me what I need to know.

That it was upheld is what tells you what you need to know.

But I would like you to provide a link to prove your statement that the Supreme Court said Prop 13 stinks.



Property taxes in many other states is over-the-top insanely high.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Elliott_CA

No, that doesn't make it "fair." The fact that Joe only paid $100,000 for his house 30 years ago bears no relation to what government services costs today. And whether or not people have kids in school or not is irrelevant, the entire population benefits from an educated population -- schools are not paid for with user fees and should not be.

Thanks for your views but the Supreme Court is on record as saying Prop 13 stinks and they held their noses when they upheld it. That tells me what I need to know.

You are welcome and I appreciate the dialog... it is one way the misconceptions about Prop 13 are corrected... many that take issue have never read it and even though I was too young to have voted for it at the time... I am forever thankful that owners and renters had the courage to make it law... it was time the people's voice was heard and it sure was and almost 40 years later people still talk about it.

When it comes to taxation... why is it Fair those who make little often get more back in taxes than paid in... why do they get anything back.

The "Fairest" tax we could have is a Flat Tax where everyone contributes.

Remember... California already has the big three... Property Tax, Income Tax and Sales Tax... none of our neighboring States have all three and yet... there are those that think we should go back to a Property Tax system based on OPINION of Value instead of using the actual value at the time of transfer...

I've seen the devastation of what happens when the Assessor increases you home property tax 80% in Thurston County Washington because someone from California pays an outlandish price for some land with plans of making a fortune... yet the land has wetland restrictions so no subdivision possible... matters not... the Assessor has a bona fide sale that sets a new record price for land and all the surrounding neighbors now see their assessments nearly double in one year... absolute travesty... and this happened right after the Washington version of Prop 13 called I-747 was shot down by a single judge after the voters approved it.

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

right after the Washington version of Prop 13 called I-747 was shot down by a single judge after the voters approved it.

Didn't any group appeal the judge's decision?

[Ultrarunner]

Yes... the author did... it was in limbo for sometime and the part that coincided with Prop 13 was struck down saying the voters did not realize what they had voted for...

It really was a big deal that stretched out for years...

I was living there at the time and bought a home... my home was assessed what I had paid for it and I felt confident in my long term affordability as I had done my homework...

18 months later I-747 was tossed and my assessment went up 80%...

I've posted the exact numbers before but roughly from $6800 to over $12000 so property tax of $1000 per month.

I still own the home and have it rented... it rents with a property management company for $1950 per month...

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Yes... the author did... it was in limbo for sometime and the part that coincided with Prop 13 was struck down saying the voters did not realize what they had voted for...

It really was a big deal that stretched out for years...

I was living there at the time and bought a home... my home was assessed what I had paid for it and I felt confident in my long term affordability as I had done my homework...

18 months later I-747 was tossed and my assessment went up 80%...

I've posted the exact numbers before but roughly from $6800 to over $12000 so property tax of $1000 per month.

I still own the home and have it rented... it rents with a property management company for $1950 per month...

OUCH!

I don't understand how a judge can determine whether voters "realize what they voted for". Is he psychic?

Can you link to your prior message with the numbers?

[Ultrarunner]

Here are two links to the initiative.

https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_P...tive_747_(2001)

Eyman initiative ruled unconstitutional | The Seattle Times

It took years to wind its way through the courts... when all was said and done I had an 80% increase 18 months after I purchased and my purchase had been on the market for awhile.

Having experienced a double digit increase... actually close to doubling in one year it made me extremely grateful for Prop 13... just the peace of mind knowing there are limits without voter approval.

I think the thing to remember is California County property base transfers are distinct and separate from the language of Prop 13 and the counties choose whether to allow transfers or not.

El Dorado County includes parts of Lake Tahoe... however, the Nevada side without Prop 13 has some of the priciest Real Estate because of Nevada tax laws... follow the money.

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Here are two links to the initiative.

https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_P...tive_747_(2001)

Eyman initiative ruled unconstitutional | The Seattle Times

It took years to wind its way through the courts... when all was said and done I had an 80% increase 18 months after I purchased and my purchase had been on the market for awhile.

Having experienced a double digit increase... actually close to doubling in one year it made me extremely grateful for Prop 13... just the peace of mind knowing there are limits without voter approval.

I think the thing to remember is California County property base transfers are distinct and separate from the language of Prop 13 and the counties choose whether to allow transfers or not.

El Dorado County includes parts of Lake Tahoe... however, the Nevada side without Prop 13 has some of the priciest Real Estate because of Nevada tax laws... follow the money.

Regarding the Washington State Property Tax Limitation:

Your first link, Ballotpedia, states "There is currently no text in this page."

The second link was very interesting and it seems to me that there should be some fine-tuning of it and resubmission by residential property owners to make it more like Proposition 13.

Regarding your statement "I think the thing to remember is California County property base transfers are distinct and separate from the language of Prop 13 and the counties choose whether to allow transfers or not.", I agree that it is separate and that counties' supervisors decide whether to participate.

However, the intention is similar, that is, along with the predictable tax increases that Proposition 13 provided taxpayers, there was the intent (which succeeded) to reduce/repeal taxes back to a more affordable rate or bill so that longtime owners (often seniors) were not being priced out of their homes.

Proposition 90 was and is intended to 1) help seniors keep their lower tax bills when they move (once and only once) to a participating county, and 2) to induce greater turnover of homes owned by senior citizens, which is a benefit to realtors and to homebuyers who want to move into the seniors' homes, which are in the majority of instances closer to business/job centers.

[Ultrarunner]

Don't know what happened to link Number 1?

It was very informative and active when I posted...

Sorry about the bad link.

I did a ton of due diligence prior to buying and property tax was a huge concern... I-747 put my mind at ease.

To find yourself with an assessment increase of 80% in one fell swoop put me in panic mode and I found I was not alone... and the 80% was above what I had paid for the place 18 months prior... even in California to nearly double in value in 18 months is something I have never heard.

https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_P...ive_747_(2001)