Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Utah is without question the most socially oppressive state I have ever lived in. Maybe you are not familiar with the underpinnings of the Mormon religion. Mormons believe that the only way to go to the highest level of heaven is to be sealed to a priesthood holder in a Mormon temple. Marriage is hugely central to their way of life. Therefore it would have to follow that if one "must" be married then looks are going to be important. Mormons do put an emphasis on normal, basic good looks-- normal, Westernized features, etc. Many of them are blessed with these features and do not need surgery. The problem seems to be those who don't have standard features or who are not paticularly attractive. I am not a bad looking person, but I am extremely short and small boned, and had a facial feature (story told earlier in thread) that detracted from my look when I moved here. I never felt so alienated in my life. The feature is still not fixed, and the fact that I am a non Mormon and unmarried does seem to impact the quality of my life here. Mormons can and often are very rude to me, and imply all kinds of things about what kind of person I must be, etc. If I was to continue to live here there is no doubt in my mind I would need to have additional surgery. Very sad but my assessment of the situation after living here for three years.
If I go back to Albuquerque I will most likely also need to have a revision. That is really not the point though. The point is, in Albuquerque there are few Mormons and no social network filled with people obsessed with being sealed in the Temple, obtaining a priesthood holder, or going to the highest celestial heaven. There are vain people everywhere, but not those who would imply I might be lost to outer darkness for not having what they have-- perfect looks, a Mormon approved Temple marriage, etc.
I get the impression from your posts, that for your way of life, you made a bad choice to live in Utah and are using this board to voice your repressed angry feelings about that decision. Feelings that you do not dare voice in your workplace, or to anyone else. It's almost as if this is therapy for you. Personally, I have been to Albuq... and it was not interesting to me at all, very slow paced, like things were in slow motion there, so I know I would never live there. Here's to you finding your place somewhere, anywhere but Utah...
Utah is without question the most socially oppressive state I have ever lived in. Maybe you are not familiar with the underpinnings of the Mormon religion. Mormons believe that the only way to go to the highest level of heaven is to be sealed to a priesthood holder in a Mormon temple. Marriage is hugely central to their way of life. Therefore it would have to follow that if one "must" be married then looks are going to be important. Mormons do put an emphasis on normal, basic good looks-- normal, Westernized features, etc. Many of them are blessed with these features and do not need surgery. The problem seems to be those who don't have standard features or who are not paticularly attractive. I am not a bad looking person, but I am extremely short and small boned, and had a facial feature (story told earlier in thread) that detracted from my look when I moved here. I never felt so alienated in my life. The feature is still not fixed, and the fact that I am a non Mormon and unmarried does seem to impact the quality of my life here. Mormons can and often are very rude to me, and imply all kinds of things about what kind of person I must be, etc. If I was to continue to live here there is no doubt in my mind I would need to have additional surgery. Very sad but my assessment of the situation after living here for three years.
If I go back to Albuquerque I will most likely also need to have a revision. That is really not the point though. The point is, in Albuquerque there are few Mormons and no social network filled with people obsessed with being sealed in the Temple, obtaining a priesthood holder, or going to the highest celestial heaven. There are vain people everywhere, but not those who would imply I might be lost to outer darkness for not having what they have-- perfect looks, a Mormon approved Temple marriage, etc.
a few things:
a) i know what the mormons believe. i am one.
b) the way you state that a 'mormon' has to be married to a 'priesthood holder' only works as far as that mormon is a woman. in that case, it appears that this has to do with previous comments about the oppression of women. the actual doctrine states that in order to reach the highest degree of exaltation, man and woman need to be joined in a temple marraige. that means that my wife cannot get there by herself, and i cannot get there by myself. it works both ways. you can call this an oppressive attitude if you wish, and i know that some people do, but i don't think that too many people see it that way.
c) looks are important to attraction, which is important to a relationship that is going to be sexual in any way, but that is not meant to be the focus. i have dated some good-looking women in my life that were nice girls, decent, caring, intelligent. i have also dated some attractive airheads. there are also really awesome girls that are not that good-looking, and there are unattractive airheads as well. most guys could attest to this. i am sure that many women can say that about the men the have dated. i can tell you that i am one ugly guy--though my wife says that i'm cute (they have to say that though). but again, the point is to get past that. in any and all senses. if you are obsessed with physical attraction, you're not going to find a lot of happiness in life, because the older you get, the more things sag and wrinkle. not to mention the thinning of my graying hair...
d) you imply that mormons are obsessed with temple marraige to a priesthood holder in order to go to heaven, which is a generalization that certainly applies to--a few--mormons (i admit it, there are crazies everywhere). but the majority of us know that if we do our part to have faith in Christ, to walk in His path, we will get there, even if we never found our eternal love during this life. we will find him/her in the next and be permitted anyway. so i stand by my assertation that we are not all a bunch of terrified refugees seeking whatever vacancy we can on the lifeboat of married life.
e) you could not be lost to outer darkness (i'll admit that i don't know you that well, but it is a fair bet). i could not be lost there even with all of the stupid things i've done in my life. and anyone that tries to imply that you could be is ignorant as to what OD actually is, and how you get a ticket there. now, having said that, if you try to make implications that others are making such implications...
f) good looks is not a requirement to get to heaven as you implied, and there is not a mormon in the state that thinks it is (and if there is, i'm gonna hunt them down myself).
g) none of any of that really has to do with the problem here, which is that you have been insulted by one or more mormons. for that, i am sorry. i cannot tell you how annoyed i am when a member of my faith does something stupid to hurt someone else. granted, this is a pride issue as much as it is concern for another human being--i am very impatient with members of my faith making a nuissance of themselves. but i truly am sorry for the bad experiences that you have had, and for how they have affected your opinion of a n otherwise great state and a God-seeking, neighbor-loving religion.
but that is still not the point.
the point is: get over it. get on with it. get on with life. cowboy up. make sure YOU are happy and content. stop worrying that everyone around you is. i do not doubt that you have met insensitive, relf-righteous mormons. i can promise that i have met more than you (i have been known to be one every now and then, though i try to be conscious of my weakness). you are never going to be happy with your life if you are always letting rude people put you down. i'm not saying start a war. i'm saying be the bigger person. whatever stupid things people say/do/think to you are not worth making yourself miserable over. stop pretending that their opinions matter. if you really want plastic surgery, do it for yourself, not cuz the mormons down the street are prettier than you.
what you are doing now is wallowing in the mud that someone pushed you into, and then blaming everyone else in the state (mormon or not in some of your posts) for the fall. if you need, let someone help you up. if not, do it yourself. not all mormons are arrogant, ignorant brats. i hope you can see that there are quite possibly a good number of them that associate with you *every day* that are friendly to you, and count you as a good person.
anyway, i've run out of things to say at the moment. if i have said anything to offend, i am sorry. i am kinda insensitive in some ways too. we all are on certain issues, and the one that is pushing my buttons right now is that you can't see the cool, good people and things that surround you. you sound like a smart person as i read your posts. i can kinda see some of the thought process in your words and stuff and i see someone who is capable of reason and forgiveness. but instead i hear bitterness and hurt. stop making room for the negative, and focus on the cool things that you and others are capable of.
sincerely, and sincerely meant to be helpful, not mean or pompous, aaron out.
I have been here almost 8 miserable years, and have always felt weird and out of place. I'm just a normal person from back east, but the whole church, family, etc. is just too much to take. I totally know where you're coming from. And I'm hoping to get out of here this summer. The constant, cold, snowy, forever-lasting winters are depressing. There's nothing for kids to do except go to church or play board games on family night. Help me! I feel like I"m taking crazy pills!
There's nothing wrong w/ these people following their religion. The fact is that if you aren't Mormon and have young children, and live in the suburbs, then it's best to move somewhere else. I can't stand the fact that my kids have no one to play with on Sundays, and whatever other nights they take up w/ churchy stuff. I'm gettin the "heck" outa dodge, when my daughter finishes her first year of school this year. Maybbe then she'll be invited to b-day parties and sleepovers, etc. Now, we're just living in a cold, icy, lonely prison.
There's nothing wrong w/ these people following their religion. The fact is that if you aren't Mormon and have young children, and live in the suburbs, then it's best to move somewhere else. I can't stand the fact that my kids have no one to play with on Sundays, and whatever other nights they take up w/ churchy stuff. I'm gettin the "heck" outa dodge, when my daughter finishes her first year of school this year. Maybbe then she'll be invited to b-day parties and sleepovers, etc. Now, we're just living in a cold, icy, lonely prison.
I had implants and lipo by a highly recomended Doctore and everything was botched. So please do as much research as possible. This was by a Doctor who works out of SLC and Orem. I never would have guessed this would havve happened. just beware. I would have rather had nothing done than look like I do now, with uneven breasts and a crease in my abdomen that was never there before.
However, having lived in the Pacific Northwest, Utah, and New England, I would say that SLC and Utah County are much more concerned with appearances than the other areas I have lived.
MomtoFour is right. I grew up in a SLC suburb. Have lived in 3 different states the past 10 years and can verify now that the people in UT are VERY concerned about their looks, maybe a little too much. My co-worker here in Ohio went a few years ago and said that he has never seen so many good looking people.
I wouldn't limit it to just looks either. Everyone has to build a new home, brag about some vacation, buy a big brand new Tahoe (or some other gas guzzling SUV). I better stop before I go too far....
I still find it amusing that in a city that is 49% Mormon, it is seen as just the Mormons that are the ones having the cosmetic surgery. It was SLC the city not the relgion that was cited by Forbes magazine. Yet this thread has digressed into another bash Mormons thread.
Catrinac-
I lived in SLC (West Jordan actually) for nearly six years and was just dying to get out of there. We moved to Austin, TX in November and I love it here. I never felt "at home" in Utah. My children were rarely invited to birthday parties and nobody ever invited our family over to dinner, etc (That's not true. A neighbor invited us over the first week we moved in. That was the last time, though.) The funny thing is, I'm very active LDS. I go to church every week. I'm normal, funny and of course, being Mormon, am very pretty (kidding!). Anyway, don't blame the isolation you feel here on Mormons. I've thought a lot about this topic and I believe it's more a matter of people here having extended families that they do all their socializing with. We have several neigbors who are not LDS and they are just as much into the whole family thing as the Mormons are.
When we were leaving to come to Texas one of my few friends threw us a going away party. Our entire ward and neighborhood was invited. Only a handful came. I had several people tell me earlier in the week that they wished they would be able to come but they had family stuff. I just wanted to say, "wait, we're moving away, but instead of saying goodbye you're going to hang out with the same people you hang out with every single week?!"
To me, that is Utah in a nutshell. You can blame it on religion all you want, but that's not accurate.
Now that I've gone to church in Texas it's funny to hear Mormons here talk about Utah. The general concensus is "don't live there no matter what!"
Anytime you have a lot of people living in the place where they grew up, it's going to be a closed, insular society towards outsiders. This could be said about anywhere in the world. People in Utah just have their lives and friendships already in place. They won't make much time for outsiders. They'll be friendly on the surface, but you won't get much more than that. If you moved to anyplace similar, be it New hampshire, Georgia or Italy, you're going to run into the same thing.
Your best hope in Utah (or anywhere I guess) is to find people who are recent transplants. They won't have a support group already in place and would probably welcome the friendship you can offer.
The Mormons here in Texas have been incredibly welcoming. We've been invited to do more socially than we were the whole time we were in Utah put together. All these Mormons are transplants, so I think that's the reason they are going out of their way to include us. They don't have big families and lots of old friends from high school nearby. They actually need friends just like we do.
Anyway, this has turned into quite the novel! I hear your pain. I just don't think you should blame it on the mormons.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
botched surgeries! beware
