Loop 1604 TXDOT Meeting tonight (Houston, San Antonio: appointed, homes, neighborhoods)

[TXtrkgrl]

Is anyone going to the TXDOT meeting tonight at 6:00pm??


There is also a TXDOT meeting on June 28th discussing Hwy 16, Hwy 90 & 211. Unfortunately I will not be able to attend either meeting but would like some input from anyone who attends.

[slaleman]

I hope the plan for 1604 makes the toll lanes true express lanes with exits only at major intersections like 281, I-10, Bandera, and I-35, otherwise I don't know that the traffic will flow enough to make it worth the extra $7 a day I'd spend driving it.

[rd2007]

if anybody does go, please mention the retarded light at 1604 and Marbach.. I don't know why it gives priority to Marbach, but I hate having to always stop at it in the early morning hours when nobody is on the road.
I think most of SA's traffic problems could be fixed by making the lights more smart. that and getting rid of the left lane huggers going at or under the speed limit...

[oldmanshirt]

I'm going to try to go tonight, and I did not know about the meeting on the 28th. Is it going to be at Alzafar also?

[TXtrkgrl]

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

I'm going to try to go tonight, and I did not know about the meeting on the 28th. Is it going to be at Alzafar also?

No, the meeting on the 28th is at Potranco Elem school cafeteria.
Here is a link:
Public Hearings and Meetings – San Antonio

Let us know how the meeting goes tonight. THANKS~~

[oldmanshirt]

I just got back from the meeting (left after 2 hours), and though it was my first time at one of these hearings, I can imagine this one went pretty much like the ones before it did.

I was pretty disappointed in representatives from both sides of the tolling debate. The anti-toll folks struck me as being no different than any other grass-roots organization that relies mainly on t-shirts and emotional foot stomping to deliver thier message. They did a good job of being sarcastic and calling for the impeachment of government officials, but they did a pretty poor job of presenting viable alternatives to relieving congestion. Guess they were too busy making t-shirts and buttons and doing KENS 5 interviews to think of anything.

On the other hand, the people who got up to speak in favor of the toll roads all struck me as being bought and paid for by the government. Though they mostly used facts instead of conjecture (which the anti-toll folks largely relied on), they did little to address or reach out to the people whose homes and businesses would be affected by this enourmous project.

And enourmous it will be. If the videos of the completed project that they were showing is any indication, in 10 years the northern half of 1604 will rival the Katy freeway in sheer massiveness. As with all enourmous projects, somebody's going to get rich and somebody's going to get mad. That's just reality, and stomping your feet and yelling for some politician to get impeached isn't a very healthy way of dealing with it, as the 72 year old guy who got up and said this was ruining his retirement unintentionally demonstrated.

Another thing I didnt like about the TXDot/pro-toll people is that they too easily dismissed the other alternatives like mass transit and HOV lanes. Addressing those options in detail and showing why they weren't viable would've made the whole thing seem a bit less fishy. Instead, they gave off a definite aura of "we're doing this because we can", which best case scenario results in something right done for the wrong reasons.

Since the beginning I've been in favor of toll lanes to 1604 and 281 (putting them on the interstates and Wurzbach parkway is another issue). I always figured that the other three big metros in TX had them, so why should SA be special? But now that I've gotten a sense of the money and political influence behind this whole thing, I can't say that I wholeheartedly support either side. I dislike tolls as much as the next person, but I dislike miles of stacked up cars and traffic lights even more. It's either do now what should have been planned 20 years ago, or else argue about it for another 20. You tell me which sounds more appealing? Anyway /soapbox

[Turtle_Mom]

Whatever happened to just having good freeways with PROPER interchanges? 1604/281 and 281/410 are just jokes - getting off the freeway, going through town and stoplights to get on the freeway of choice? If they kept up on the freeway size, offramps, carpool lanes etc. We wouldn't have many of these problems.

San Antonio could learn a few things from Phoenix area on managing the transportation system and being proactive in planning.

But I'm glad I live here and not Phoenix

[mimimomx3]

I live in Austin, and we're dealing with toll roads and traffic here too. My thoughts:
-I think that toll roads are a fine way to finance building NEW roads. Toll until they're paid for, then shut down the tolls.
-Toll roads for already paid roads are DOUBLE TAXATION. They've already been paid for. Any more is a money grab to pay for useless government programs.
-If you want to cut down on traffic congestion, the logical answer is to encourage car pooling...that means HOV (high occupancy vehicle, more than one passenger) lanes and carpool lanes- not tolling.
-Tolling just encourages cut through neighborhoods.
My .02

[oldmanshirt]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I live in Austin, and we're dealing with toll roads and traffic here too. My thoughts:
-I think that toll roads are a fine way to finance building NEW roads. Toll until they're paid for, then shut down the tolls.
-Toll roads for already paid roads are DOUBLE TAXATION. They've already been paid for. Any more is a money grab to pay for useless government programs.
-If you want to cut down on traffic congestion, the logical answer is to encourage car pooling...that means HOV (high occupancy vehicle, more than one passenger) lanes and carpool lanes- not tolling.
-Tolling just encourages cut through neighborhoods.
My .02

I agree with most of that. I'm in favor of indexing the gas tax, making HOV lanes (which I use every time I can in Houston and other places) and finding other means of financing construction on existing roads. Reason would say, "hey, we've built them all without tolls before now, so why do we need it all of the sudden?"

On the other hand, you can't make soccer mom X stop driving her Escalade solo if she doesn't want to. You can't force anyone to carpool if they don't want to. You can only anticipate and respond to what they will do. If they don't want to build rail, you can't force them to ride by building it. Since so many people insist on living outside 1604 even though there's still plenty of land inside 1604 (um, anybody ever been to the South side??) and driving all over creation with only one person in the vehicle, roads need to be built/expanded at some point. So here's a solution: build new lanes and toll the new lanes while leaving the existing ones free. It's not the solution that makes everyone happy, but I don't want to sit around and wait for the TX legislature to raise gas taxes, since they've already demonstrated they aren't going to. So until somebody comes along with a better solution, they should stop impeding progress with this inane rambling.

[Turtle_Mom]

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

On the other hand, you can't make soccer mom X stop driving her Escalade solo if she doesn't want to. You can't force anyone to carpool if they don't want to. You can only anticipate and respond to what they will do. If they don't want to build rail, you can't force them to ride by building it. Since so many people insist on living outside 1604 even though there's still plenty of land inside 1604 (um, anybody ever been to the South side??) and driving all over creation with only one person in the vehicle, roads need to be built/expanded at some point. .

So now the people who live outside 1604 are to blame? Like the city planners didn't see this growth coming? Those people chose the area to live for a variety of reasons (hills, trees, quality of life, away from the city, school districts, future golf course, commute time, etc.) but the developers are the ones who planned for the subdivisions and shopping areas. The growth has been planned and expected for many years, the DOT knew what to expect and should have been better prepared.

Now that the South Side is growing with Toyota and all that, they should start NOW to prepare for that growth and getting the roads ahead of the game so we don't have this issue all over the city. Toll roads all over the 281 or 1604 will just cause more congestion on the surface streets, I-10 and 410.