HEB announces downtown store and $100M investment around it..finally. (Dallas: crime, house)

[Shock]

I don't buy the street closure opposition anymore, not after that traffic study showed that on one day, only one pedestrian traveled through that section of Main and no cyclists that did not work at HEB. How can you oppose saving a street you don't even use? And I admit that I don't live in the area, but I have lived in SA most of my life and am very familiar with the area and frequent near by from time to time.

At this point, I just think it's logical to say that some will oppose no matter what the outcome was. It's probably not the best urban planning, but the city is obviously focusing on being business friendly to bring corporations downtown, which is also part of SA2020. Had HEB not been able to expand downtown, I don't think they would have left SA, but they probably would have considered moving to another part of town. The city doesn't want to take that risk.

Also, it says a lot when KWA and SACS no longer oppose the ordeal, especially SACS. May I mention that I really don't like their tactics, and they are part of the reason I sit in traffic going to and from work. Anyway, I also don't believe HEB would seek alternative expansions because my guess is that HEB wants to preserve the headquarters as much as they can, and SACS sees that as well.

Again, I don't live in the area, but I followed this story because it reminds me of how difficult it is for SA to grow compared to its other big sisters in this state, whether it's building a toll road, an apartment complex, or heck.. just a neighborhood grocery store in this case.

[staunchcharacter]

Originally Posted by Chaka

People who think Southtown/Downtown are scary and unsafe and would never even come here, really aren't in a position to comment on what the people who live here need and want.

Do you hear that?

That's the sound of a hammer squarely hitting the head of a nail

Nicely said Chaka. Better than I could have expressed it

[sapphire]

It seems to me that the people who chose to buy in Alamo Ranch did so based in part on access to shopping and good schools. Maybe that is why they are opining? Also, it's the internet. Everyone has an opinion about everything.

[staunchcharacter]

Originally Posted by Shock

Again, I don't live in the area, but I followed this story because it reminds me of how difficult it is for SA to grow compared to its other big sisters in this state, whether it's building a toll road, an apartment complex, or heck.. just a neighborhood grocery store in this case.

I agree to a point, but you've got to consider the history of the area- King William is one of the oldest, most established neighborhoods in Texas. While I'm all for progression, I think when it's a historic district you're splicing up, you've got to take a lot more care and move forward slowly.

Bottom line: I'm much less angry about HEB wanting the road closure than I am with them just ignoring what the city (and the residents who would be their customers) asked them for in a store. Southtown has a gas station already... We didn't need that additional eyesore with HEB. I don't care WHO builds a Downtown grocer, as long as it's functional for residents (selection, parking, hours) and takes our needs into consideration. HEB has done the same thing for the multitude of suburb locations they have in town and have made years of uninterrupted profit because of it.

Downtown has waiting a long time for this- Let's try to get it done right the first time, shall we?

[Shock]

I agree about the historic nature of downtown in general and very much respect it.
I agree that the gas station isn't very appealing. Gas stations are easy revenue for companies so they probably made it necessary with the store to recoup whatever losses they claim the store will incur. Some areas in town like in Stone Oak only have 1, and a very distant 2nd gas station to service that densely populated area. Although I am sure there would be more if the area wasn't in the Recharge Zone, they are doing fine with just that 1 Chevron.

[Azure110]

Originally Posted by sapphire

It seems to me that the people who chose to buy in Alamo Ranch did so based in part on access to shopping and good schools. Maybe that is why they are opining? Also, it's the internet. Everyone has an opinion about everything.

Here is an opinion for you. I think you need some love and a hug.

[teenwolf80]

Originally Posted by staunchcharacter

I agree to a point, but you've got to consider the history of the area- King William is one of the oldest, most established neighborhoods in Texas. While I'm all for progression, I think when it's a historic district you're splicing up, you've got to take a lot more care and move forward slowly.

Not sure how you can speak of history and not know that the segment of Main Ave. look to be closed didn't even exist when WWII was happening. It wasn't always there, and actually spliced the Arsenal property in half back in 1948.

What is happening is actually returning a piece of history back to its former self.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Shock

I don't buy the street closure opposition anymore, not after that traffic study showed that on one day, only one pedestrian traveled through that section of Main and no cyclists that did not work at HEB. How can you oppose saving a street you don't even use? And I admit that I don't live in the area, but I have lived in SA most of my life and am very familiar with the area and frequent near by from time to time.

I assume you know then, that while that traffic study was happening, there was construction going on in the area, so there were already road blocks and detours around Main St.

People cycle and walk and run down Main all the time, partly because it isn't so heavy with vehicles. I do a few times per week, and definitely would if the store was accessible from Main, but I don't like walking or cycling along Flores St.

Initially HEB was claiming the closure was for safety reasons, because their employees could not walk safely across the street (implying heavy vehicular traffic). That argument was shot down. If we can cross major downtown streets with kids daily for school, grown ups can use a crosswalk at Main. THEN, only after much pushback, did HEB come out with its real plan, which was to block it off, wall it off, and expand their compound. That's the part that doesn't sit right. I am devotee of HEB and extremely grateful for Charles Butt's donations to our school, but I still don't like the way this was handled. Frustratingly, for a mayor and councilperson who have mostly been very much in tune with the local concerns on other topics, this was pretty much ignored. I expected both to support it, what I hoped for was at least some acknowledgement that it wasn't ideal, that they were working with HEB to make compromises and review the plans in terms of good urban development. HEB has long had a suburban mindset, it needs to re-think its urban environment (and don't argue that CEB lives here so he should know - do you really think he does his own shopping or hangs out with the neighbors?).

It's a done deal. No surprises there. So the point is moot now. Most Southtowners will adapt, hopefully HEB will continue to make modifications that will address the community from which it will profit and won't close the store in 5 years like initially discussed. If we just sat back and accepted the original plan, we'd be stuck with little. Now at least, they've been forced to do a bit more.

[Montirob]

Originally Posted by Chaka

HEB has long had a suburban mindset, it needs to re-think its urban environment (and don't argue that CEB lives here so he should know - do you really think he does his own shopping or hangs out with the neighbors?).

It's a done deal. No surprises there. So the point is moot now. Most Southtowners will adapt, hopefully HEB will continue to make modifications that will address the community from which it will profit and won't close the store in 5 years like initially discussed. If we just sat back and accepted the original plan, we'd be stuck with little. Now at least, they've been forced to do a bit more.

I'll give you another example: the "Deco B" on Fredericksburg Rd. bordering Monticello Park. The original concept had it set far back from the street (they closed a portion of West Avenue, by the way) with all of the parking and a gas station in front - very suburban. To their credit, they worked with the various neighborhoods to move the gas station to the side (along Hildebrand), along with about one-half of the parking. Doing that allowed us to actually be able to comfortably walk to the store (you only have to cross one row of parking to get to the entry). The VIA bus stop is one of the busiest in the entire city (top 3, I think), and I believe one of the main reasons is because the entry to the store is only 200 feet away. Is it ideally sited? No, but it is much better than what was originally proposed.

[Slowpoke_TX]

Originally Posted by teenwolf80

You don't know how politics work, do you?

Yes, I do. And I also know that how it works is a far cry from how it's supposed to work.