UTSA Professor: Do you think the university had grounds to fire Ayers? (Howe: fit in, lawsuit)

[FreetailBrewing]

Originally Posted by sinsativ

Well, last I checked, Discrimination, (or Harassment, how long was he going to treat her like that, did he give her different grades than she deserved?) even tho old school thinking as I am, was illegal, Now, I also, said, HE stated that in his email. He has already ADMITTED it. UM, dont need to prove it if he admits it.

Disclaimer: please don't confuse the following statements as justifying his actions; I'm only defending due process.

1) Is ignoring someone (for whatever reason) illegal? Does it constitute discrimination or harassment? Is there any evidence the student in question received a grade other than what she earned?

2) By the laws of our country, he isn’t guilty of any crime until the court determines he is. If he is guilty of violating UTSA policies, he will be punished. No one here has suggested he shouldn’t be. If he is guilty of violating a law, he should be punished (though I have heard no indication he is being investigated for committing any crime). No one here has suggested he shouldn’t be. I am just thankful that in this country courts get to decide these things, and not message boards.

I think the only place where pretty much anyone differs of opinion in this thread is the willingness of some to assume guilt. Since all of us here are likely operating based solely on what has been published by the Express-News, it seems safe to say that the University is better qualified to judge his guilt in matters of violations of school policy. And police and our courts, should they choose to investigate, would be in a much better position to determine his guilt of crimes.

[PopsGuysRule]

Originally Posted by Chaka

It's clear you're not responding to any of my posts, because I have yet to ever defend this person's behaviour.

On the off chance you've misread my posts,I will state again, that I have in no way shape or form defended this man's behaviour on any basis.

My argument is that, if the public wants to try and convict him, they need to do so based on his actual crime. The reality is that in this country, we can't convict people based on a possible crime, but only on that which they have committed. If he has committed rape, or child molestation, those are crimes and he should be tried accordingly. If he has violated stated UTSA policies, appropriate disciplinary action should be taken.It does no one any service to rant about potential rape, potential child molestation, and in effect, victimizing college students.

We need to empower young college students to realize they don't need to be victims. They do not need to fall prey to such an individual. If we treat them as helpless victims, they become helpless victims.

I say this from too much person experience with this topic.

Chaka, up to this point in the thread, I haven't seen anyone suggest he should be prosecuted for anything, so I"m not sure why you are still so concerned about that. ALTHOUGH, having said that, he WAS using state-owned tools to talk about his sexual fantasies or yearnings or leanings AND he was mentioning young women. I am fairly certain we will discover that he was, at the very LEAST in violation of the code of conduct at a STATE university; I'm also fairly certain that will cause him some ongong legal problems.
I THINK - I dont know, and won't presume to speak for others, but I BELIEVE that most people believe that he should not hold a position that exposes him to children barely of legal adult status - some not even there yet.... It is CERTAINLY a concern of mine.
But even BEYOND that, he has betrayed a TRUST. You don't need to break a law to be considered to be unworthy of .... a job, the public trust, the tempoary 'care' of our children..... you get the point, I'm sure.
The man shouldn't be teaching at any level, for any public entity. I believe that very strongly, and I think many others do as well. PERSONALLY, I don't believe he should even be teaching at a private institution, but they DO have much more latitiude there, obviously. HH/PGR

[metalfish]

I know a couple of utsa proffesors that ive hooked up with and send me dirty messages online but i suppose the differance is that they werent doing it on campus.

[Chaka]

edited - can't be bothered anymore....

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Thanks for responding at more length than I quoted. I thought it was an intriguing question that's difficult to answer. I agree with your answers and yet I see how the other side of the argument makes more sense when the job is different. In the end, it likely comes down to the individual choice of the employer.

Sort of. The direct supervisor may very well want to fire someone, but in a public institution, it can be very hard to do so. So that's kind of employer choice, in that the public employer chooses to make it difficult to fire someone, even if the direct supervisor would choose to do so if possible.

[sapphire]

Originally Posted by Chaka

That's the issue -

I believe that young adults are best off being treated as adults rather than as .........objects of a sick man's sexual fantasies. What self-respecting woman could possibly find herself registering for one of his classes?

But I've said that enough times in this thread, so I won't bother again.

You'll rebut. I'm sure of it.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by sapphire

You'll rebut. I'm sure of it.

I deleted because I can't be bothered to argue this anymore. I'm not sure why you'd mix posts, but whatever. At least if you're going to quote someone, do so appropriately.

[sapphire]

Originally Posted by Chaka

I deleted because I can't be bothered to argue this anymore. I'm not sure why you'd mix posts, but whatever. At least if you're going to quote someone, do so appropriately.

I did so deliberately with MY words in there. You are going to defend this until we are all ready to slit our wrists. You may not be defending him, per se, but you never let anyone have the last word on anything. Thank God you are not the person making the decision on whether this person stays or goes. You will never see past your own agenda. Report this post, I'm fine with that. It's amusing to many of us.........

[sapphire]

Moderator cut: cut

This guy is a loser, sicko, *******, and needs to be removed from his position.

That's my final word, but some flaming liberals will come and say, "oh, he didn't do anything wrong." Whatever, they are as sick as he is.

[Chaka]

My "agenda" is this:

1. Treat young adults as adults, and empower them to take control of their own lives, so that individuals such as this man do not have the power to ruin them.

2. Focus on the actual wrongdoing, rather than the perceived or potential wrong doing, so that he does not get off on a technicality.

If that's laughable for some, so be it. I take his actions seriously.