UTSA Professor: Do you think the university had grounds to fire Ayers? (Alto: lawyer, office)

[the_dimwit]

Freetail,

Well-put explanation. I agree with you in that there is a process that should be followed, just like I would expect if the shoe was on my foot. Obviously, this is a highly sensitive issue that brings to mind a lot of highly sensitive topics (both on and off this board). I have little doubt that Mr. Ayers will be fired (again), but that's not my decision to make.

--Dim

[sapphire]

You know what? You're correct. If I were in the enviable position of having a guaranteed job for life, I would most definitely abuse that power, and especially at another person's expense. Even if that other person is totally unaware of how she's being used. It's OK, because they can't fire me. I have no morals, no common decency, and certainly a huge ego and a nice dose of arrogance. You're right, by God! I'd fight it to the bitter end! I would even encourage front page newspaper coverage (because I've chosen to live/work in a podunk town that does that sort of thing) to let the entire city know that I'm nothing more than a horny old pervert that masturbates in my office. So yes, forget what I said about taking my toys and going home--I'll just use them there in my office!

[hello13685]

Sapphire, I know you meant it sarcastically, but you might actually be on to something. It occurs to me that UTSA has been a bit of a hiding place for tenured academics who could not make it elsewhere, or who came here to escape their twisted academic pasts. (Remember the latest National Enquirer UTSA sexual harrassment scandal of this past spring? Remember the real estate deal scandal?) These people are possibly taking advantage of San Antonio's backwoods character, as well as the school's low reputation and standards, to get away with mischief that would be under closer scrutiny at a higher quality and higher profile school.

[FreetailBrewing]

Another shoe drops... the Palo Alto professor is now on leave and is being investigated for violating school policy for his part in the email exchanges:

MySA.com: Metro | State (broken link)

[sinsativ]

So, the question, "Freetailbrewing" (strange nic" ) could this person, for the last 4 or 5 years that this has been going on, have been a fair teacher, actually grading students on the merits of their work, not the length of their skirts, or the wideness of their eyes, or simpleness of smile? His job, was to do that. Was he doing his job:? Was he doing what we paid him to do, Yes or No. We are a jury of his peers, believe it or not, most of us, are college educated, holding respected positions, and have served on a jury. So, we ask of you, as an educator, do you feel he was doing his job, and under the information given, and the input he himself has stated, was he doing it with fair and indiscriminate judgement?

[FreetailBrewing]

Originally Posted by sinsativ

So, the question, "Freetailbrewing" (strange nic" ) could this person, for the last 4 or 5 years that this has been going on, have been a fair teacher, actually grading students on the merits of their work, not the length of their skirts, or the wideness of their eyes, or simpleness of smile? His job, was to do that. Was he doing his job:? Was he doing what we paid him to do, Yes or No. We are a jury of his peers, believe it or not, most of us, are college educated, holding respected positions, and have served on a jury. So, we ask of you, as an educator, do you feel he was doing his job, and under the information given, and the input he himself has stated, was he doing it with fair and indiscriminate judgement?

I'd merely be speculating, sinsativ. I think it's possible he could have these distasteful thoughts racing through his mind while at the same time grading students fairly. Its also possible he was grading all his students unfairly. I am not equipped with the information to determine that.

I can speak from my own experience and say that I have had students who have rubbed me the wrong way, but earned A's and I gave them to them because they deserved them. At the same time, I've had students who I enjoyed having in my class and was rooting for, but still didn't earn a passing grade and I had no choice but to fail them.

I think it is impossible to know what this professor was doing without actually having access to his grade records and assignments - which will likely never been known, perhaps simply because we don't keep every assignment ever turned in on file.

Personally, I think Ayers is a troubled individual who doesn't belong in a classroom setting. But, like many troubled individuals in the world, he may still have been capable of functioning in a certain capacity while being deviant in others. I've never met the guy, and I don't know anything about him other than what I've read in the paper.

[sinsativ]

Moderator cut: cut I just figured you would give a straight yes or no, not a wishy washy answer. Thats what the board did. Being in economics and such, things are a little more clear, and if you read the emails that he wrote, even limited, anyone, can make that call.

[sapphire]

I don't understand how people in the same department as he is can claim to not know him. Is the university truly large enough for that to be believable?

[the_dimwit]

sinsativ,

While I understand the main point of your question, I must ask you a question:

(I'm assuming you're a male...apologies in advance if I'm wrong.) Can a male manager look at a subordinate female (in a light that is appreciative of her figure, smile, or some other quality) and still lead with a sense of objectivity?

In other words, aren't just about all of us guilty of doing the same thing at one point or another? How many of us have had "watercooler conversations" about the new "chick in Finance" or the "hot chick" in Human Resources? Does that mean we should be fired?

Note: I'm not being combative, but I think your question raises an interesting point about physical attraction in the workplace. If one thinks something but doesn't act, is the company responsible for those thoughts? (I'd probably say no, but I'm curious to see what others think.)

--Dim

[sinsativ]

I have been a teacher,educator, and I took that job very objectively. I didnt waste my time, nor my employers, nor my students. I was employed at a private institute as a business instructor. I graded the students, male and female, on the merits of their work, their attitude, and their effort. Not their clothes.