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While I definitely agree that SD is not a major player when it comes to being a business town, I wouldn't say our average pay is lower than most other cities. The same cities routinely found at the top are SF Bay Area, Seattle, Boston, DC and NYC. SD is usually falls in the next category below, along with LA, Minneapolis, Baltimore. What screws us up is the cost of buying a home in a good area is too high for most people.
I totally agree with you. I don't know what's all the gripe about SD's pay. Sure, our pay is not as high as SF/Bay area, but our housing is much much less. Pay might be 30% higher in the bay but cost of housing is at least 50% higher than SD. so, net-net, you're worse off in SF/bay area than here. Same can be said when you compare against LA and NYC as well. So, income is only one part of the equation. Also, compare to SD's history, we're at the all time low for house payment/income ratio, house payment/rent ratio. So, if anything, it's easier to move to SD than ever before. Also, SD's economy is pretty diverse. Sure, it's not as diverse as LA/NY/etc but those are also much larger metro.
While I definitely agree that SD is not a major player when it comes to being a business town, I wouldn't say our average pay is lower than most other cities. The same cities routinely found at the top are SF Bay Area, Seattle, Boston, DC and NYC. SD is usually falls in the next category below, along with LA, Minneapolis, Baltimore. What screws us up is the cost of buying a home in a good area is too high for most people.
Hey sdurbanite. I don't necessarily just go by median incomes or lists I see published online. Alot of the time I base things on people that I know (friends, clients, associates) that disclose to me what they make. Sure, there are plenty that make decent money here. But I still don't think the job market here is anywhere near as good as other metropolitan cities.
I'm not saying they are horrible. But I just think the job market is no where nearly as good as other areas. I also base it on several people I know looking for jobs or that have recently lost a job and trying to replace a similarly paid salary. Just not impressive compared to many other areas. JMHO.
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Originally Posted by docmcstuffin
I totally agree with you. I don't know what's all the gripe about SD's pay. Sure, our pay is not as high as SF/Bay area, but our housing is much much less. Pay might be 30% higher in the bay but cost of housing is at least 50% higher than SD. so, net-net, you're worse off in SF/bay area than here. Same can be said when you compare against LA and NYC as well. So, income is only one part of the equation. Also, compare to SD's history, we're at the all time low for house payment/income ratio, house payment/rent ratio. So, if anything, it's easier to move to SD than ever before. Also, SD's economy is pretty diverse. Sure, it's not as diverse as LA/NY/etc but those are also much larger metro.
Definitely SF is in another league. Housing there is crazy expensive. I don't know in all the cases if salaries are just 30% higher. Case in point a few years ago I had an unsolicited job offer and it was at least 2 to 3 X what I could probably make here in San Diego. The breadth of the job market here in SD is no where near what it is in other areas, except for a handful of sectors.
It's diverse enough it seems for plenty and that's what matters. But when new people are trying to get advice of moving to the area I think they really need to get a good sense what it's like. We can agree to disagree but I don't find the job market here anywhere near what it is in other areas. But it's GREAT for them to read all of our differing opinions on the area. Like I said..the world would be a VERY dull place if we all thought the same thing and all had the same opinion on everything.
Definitely SF is in another league. Housing there is crazy expensive. I don't know in all the cases if salaries are just 30% higher. Case in point a few years ago I had an unsolicited job offer and it was at least 2 to 3 X what I could probably make here in San Diego. The breadth of the job market here in SD is no where near what it is in other areas, except for a handful of sectors.
It's diverse enough it seems for plenty and that's what matters. But when new people are trying to get advice of moving to the area I think they really need to get a good sense what it's like. We can agree to disagree but I don't find the job market here anywhere near what it is in other areas. But it's GREAT for them to read all of our differing opinions on the area. Like I said..the world would be a VERY dull place if we all thought the same thing and all had the same opinion on everything.
Sure, if you compare the top range of SF to the bottom range of SD, then as you can see Attorney III would make ~2x in SF compare to SD. But that's not really a fair comparison. That's why I try not to give anecdotal data point if I don't have to. So, as you can see, on average, across these 3 profession, you're looking at 10-15% pay difference. You're welcome to pull up other profession if you like and see if they're any different, but I don't think so.
Sure, if you compare the top range of SF to the bottom range of SD, then as you can see Attorney III would make ~2x in SF compare to SD. But that's not really a fair comparison. That's why I try not to give anecdotal data point if I don't have to. So, as you can see, on average, across these 3 profession, you're looking at 10-15% pay difference. You're welcome to pull up other profession if you like and see if they're any different, but I don't think so.
That's a pretty cool site. Doc, do you know where they pull the data from this that they show? I'll check it out this weekend when I have more time. Yeah, I'm sure the differences are especially more noted at the higher levels. For example, I have MANY friends and clients in the SF area that make over $250,000 per year. Here in San Diego I have VERY few friends and clients that make that kind of salary. Or some that do are in sales or are on commission so their salary can be "feast or famine".
I'll check it out in more detail but if you know where they are pulling the data from I'd appreciate it. Thanks for posting this.
That's a pretty cool site. Doc, do you know where they pull the data from this that they show? I'll check it out this weekend when I have more time. Yeah, I'm sure the differences are especially more noted at the higher levels. For example, I have MANY friends and clients in the SF area that make over $250,000 per year. Here in San Diego I have VERY few friends and clients that make that kind of salary. Or some that do are in sales or are on commission so their salary can be "feast or famine".
I'll check it out in more detail but if you know where they are pulling the data from I'd appreciate it. Thanks for posting this.
That's a pretty cool site. Doc, do you know where they pull the data from this that they show? I'll check it out this weekend when I have more time. Yeah, I'm sure the differences are especially more noted at the higher levels. For example, I have MANY friends and clients in the SF area that make over $250,000 per year. Here in San Diego I have VERY few friends and clients that make that kind of salary. Or some that do are in sales or are on commission so their salary can be "feast or famine".
I'll check it out in more detail but if you know where they are pulling the data from I'd appreciate it. Thanks for posting this.
salary.com is a good place to start but is based on averages assuming there is a like for like position by title. eg sw eng 2, 3 or 4. Really only medium to large corps use titles like this.
These days to circumvent this, I have seen companies have similar qualifications but slightly modified and with a different title.
Using glassdoor and digging deeper into the details will give a more accurate picture in the like for like categorynas it relates to salary and position. From personal experience, in areas like SF, there may be several higher ranking SW engineers needed at one company vs maybe one or two here.n
We just had friends out here that would kill to live out here, except they work in the financial sector. Even between SF and NYC for what they do coming to SD for them is a big drop in wages.
I am sure places like Dallas where there is crazy money in insurance, finance or anything in between would blow away SD. But Dallas might be weak in Biotech as an example as compared to SD.
salary.com is a good place to start but is based on averages assuming there is a like for like position by title. eg sw eng 2, 3 or 4. Really only medium to large corps use titles like this.
These days to circumvent this, I have seen companies have similar qualifications but slightly modified and with a different title.
Using glassdoor and digging deeper into the details will give a more accurate picture in the like for like categorynas it relates to salary and position. From personal experience, in areas like SF, there may be several higher ranking SW engineers needed at one company vs maybe one or two here.n
We just had friends out here that would kill to live out here, except they work in the financial sector. Even between SF and NYC for what they do coming to SD for them is a big drop in wages.
I am sure places like Dallas where there is crazy money in insurance, finance or anything in between would blow away SD. But Dallas might be weak in Biotech as an example as compared to SD.
Yeah. I was just going to mention that Shmoov. I would take a grain of salt with numbers coming from just HR departments. All these types of websites you have to just keep in mind they might not be the most accurate or only taking a relatively small sampling of people/companies. I still prefer going by first hand type thing talking with friends, colleagues, clients that live in each area.
SD does have a few industries as we mentioned but I still think for the most part it's weak compared to most metro areas. Yep, in the finance realm San Diego isn't anything to write home about.
I still say San Diego is a fabulous place to live if you can adequately afford it and accomplish all your goals. I can't ever see myself leaving this city.
Yeah. I was just going to mention that Shmoov. I would take a grain of salt with numbers coming from just HR departments. All these types of websites you have to just keep in mind they might not be the most accurate or only taking a relatively small sampling of people/companies. I still prefer going by first hand type thing talking with friends, colleagues, clients that live in each area.
SD does have a few industries as we mentioned but I still think for the most part it's weak compared to most metro areas. Yep, in the finance realm San Diego isn't anything to write home about.
I still say San Diego is a fabulous place to live if you can adequately afford it and accomplish all your goals. I can't ever see myself leaving this city.
Of course, because SD is not a major metro and up until recently, SD has been viewed as a sleepy beach town. So, our economy is not as diverse as places like NY. But even large metro have their holes. As you said, SD have a lot of biotech jobs. Comparing NYC to SD for finance jobs is like comparing SD to NYC for biotech jobs. Each city have their own core job markets. The larger the city, the larger the core. As we grow, our core will grow as well. In the 90s, our main industry was defense. Today, we have defense, biotech, engineering. Will we get more finance jobs as we grow? I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if our core industries will grow with the population growth.
Salary.com is good because it's a source of data that we all can view. Glassdoor.com is good too, but they're more company specific and you need an account to view the data. I would take a larger grain of salt with anecdotal numbers than data from salary.com. If you put a lot of weight in anecdotal evidence, then my anecdotal experience is that I was offered a similar position for about 10% higher than a comparable position in SD. I end up taking the job in SD because because the cost of living is well over 50% higher for comparable place based on my own set of criteria. This was 2 years ago.
Yep. I'd agree Doc that San Diego in many ways can feel like a "sleepy little town". It really does have a small town feel which I actually like.
I assume when you say the cost of living was 50% higher you probably had an offer in San Francisco? There too I would argue isn't the best place for the typical middle class family trying to achieve all their goals.
Doc, just out of curiosity, what other fields do you think are strong here besides engineering (cell/telecom), biotech, defense? Like what other fields would you tell a friend you knew that lived in another city, "You really should move out to San Diego because you can easily find a great paying job easily" type of thingy?
Last edited by earlyretirement; 04-12-2013 at 12:34 PM..
Yep. I'd agree Doc that San Diego in many ways can feel like a "sleepy little town". It really does have a small town feel which I actually like.
I assume when you say the cost of living was 50% higher you probably had an offer in San Francisco? There too I would argue isn't the best place for the typical middle class family trying to achieve all their goals.
Doc, just out of curiosity, what other fields do you think are strong here besides engineering (cell/telecom), biotech, defense? Like what other fields would you tell a friend you knew that lived in another city, "You really should move out to San Diego because you can easily find a great paying job easily" type of thingy?
I didn't get any offers in SF because I would never raise a family inside SF. I got offers in South Bay. My requirement is I want a school w/ API score of at least 9 and be w/in 3-5 miles from work. 50% is definitely an understatement. I was comparing Redwood City, Palo Alto, Mt. View and Sunnyvale. The crappiest of those areas are 30-50% higher than Carmel Valley and Palo Alto is a lot more than 50% higher than Carmel Valley for comparable homes. There's absolutely nothing like Mira Mesa up there in term of price, schools, and distance to work. The areas that's similar to Mira Mesa in term of schools and distance to work were about 80-100% more expensive. What would be $350k down here would have easily been $600-700k up there. The offer I got was 10-15% higher than the offer that I took down here.
As for SD, I think those 3 sectors are the best. Other than that, you can be an entrepreneur and open a small biz. There's a big leisure industry, but I don't know if they pay well or not.
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