Cool Interactive Map with Income and Rent for every neighborhood (San Diego: real estate, apartment)

[earlyretirement]

I saw this link on another forum that I post to and thought it was cool. You can enter your address and see the income or rent for your hood or parts of your city. Really cool.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Cool. thanks for shating! South of the 8 never disapoints with its eclectic numbers lol

[hitman619]

Not loading for me

[docmcstuffin]

Look at all those areas with HH income well less than $100k. I wonder how they survive.

[earlyretirement]

Originally Posted by docmcstuffin

Look at all those areas with HH income well less than $100k. I wonder how they survive.

Remember that this is just income reported on tax return. It doesn't tell the entire picture and reported income for many people that live in San Diego doesn't necessarily mean much because they bought their houses MANY years ago and they are paid off now. They don't need the amount of income that NEW people buying at today's prices needs.

Another poster on another forum made excellent comments about this. He posted, "I think it's kind of interesting that income levels in metro and uptown SD are shown as fairly low but residential properties (especially 1-4 units) are quite valuable there.

For instance, the dark green census tract 42 (North Park; South Park) in a sea of "lower income" census tracts indicates that a plethora of "workers" have moved in there, causing the area to "gentrify." This doesn't mean that the new worker families necessarily have a higher net worth than their longtime-owner neighbors. It only means they have a higher annual income".

I totally agree. I know doc you were trying to make a point with that comment which I do understand but reported income doesn't tell the entire picture as it relates to how they afford to live in the area, something which we've discussed on here many times.

[NYSD1995]

household income is only an indicator relative to the same thing somewhere else - not as way to determine net income, wealth or standard of living. As described above the HH income statistic inlcudes retirees on fixed incomes as well as ultra wealthy taking their income as capital gains instead of wages. How that nets out in terms of relative housing affordability and quality of life entirely depends on the mix of income classes and sources, which is highly localized and dependent on an individual city / neigborhood.

That is how come the average HH income in Manhattan is only 2x the national average but home prices are exponentially higher. Imagine if you only looked at HH income for those purchasing homes in a given year for the last 10 years or so - the number would skyrocket. Almost no one on a 100k income is buying an apartment in Manhattan at this point.

Rent-to-income or mortgage payment to income is much more telling, especially if you restrict it to those who have bought / rented within say 10 years. Since wages have not kept up with home price and other inflation you have a very distorted scenario in the greater average (mostly just reflecting the aging of our population). PPSF vs Income is probably even better because it rules out home / family size and better shows the market impact of the property price.

Rent-to-income is better than home pricee-to-income because rentals turn over much more frequently and inflates faster than mortgages, and it is usually where new / young / relocators land (which is the majority of the people on this forum). Of that group, I would think average incomes are much higher as these are the only people who can afford today's prices.

[docmcstuffin]

Originally Posted by earlyretirement

Remember that this is just income reported on tax return. It doesn't tell the entire picture and reported income for many people that live in San Diego doesn't necessarily mean much because they bought their houses MANY years ago and they are paid off now. They don't need the amount of income that NEW people buying at today's prices needs.

Another poster on another forum made excellent comments about this. He posted, "I think it's kind of interesting that income levels in metro and uptown SD are shown as fairly low but residential properties (especially 1-4 units) are quite valuable there.

For instance, the dark green census tract 42 (North Park; South Park) in a sea of "lower income" census tracts indicates that a plethora of "workers" have moved in there, causing the area to "gentrify." This doesn't mean that the new worker families necessarily have a higher net worth than their longtime-owner neighbors. It only means they have a higher annual income".

I totally agree. I know doc you were trying to make a point with that comment which I do understand but reported income doesn't tell the entire picture as it relates to how they afford to live in the area, something which we've discussed on here many times.

I agree income doesn't tell the entire picture. You and I are not the norm (saving for retirement, college education, etc). I know many who make much less than me and they're surviving. They just don't have much in retirement, not because they couldn't, but because they have by the latest bling. They're OK w/ depending on SS when they "retire". They don't have for kids' education. They leave it up to the kids to get their own student loan. I would those are the vast majority and what you and I do is not typical.

I agree with you that larger income doesn't always mean higher net worth. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anyway to find that data. What if those people w/ $100k income have $200-300k saved up for a down payment when they move here because they've been living in a low cost area. Unless we have a complete picture of their finances, knowing just income or just expense won't be enough.

[earlyretirement]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

household income is only an indicator relative to the same thing somewhere else - not as way to determine net income, wealth or standard of living. As described above the HH income statistic inlcudes retirees on fixed incomes as well as ultra wealthy taking their income as capital gains instead of wages. How that nets out in terms of relative housing affordability and quality of life entirely depends on the mix of income classes and sources, which is highly localized and dependent on an individual city / neigborhood.

That is how come the average HH income in Manhattan is only 2x the national average but home prices are exponentially higher. Imagine if you only looked at HH income for those purchasing homes in a given year for the last 10 years or so - the number would skyrocket. Almost no one on a 100k income is buying an apartment in Manhattan at this point.

Rent-to-income or mortgage payment to income is much more telling, especially if you restrict it to those who have bought / rented within say 10 years. Since wages have not kept up with home price and other inflation you have a very distorted scenario in the greater average (mostly just reflecting the aging of our population). PPSF vs Income is probably even better because it rules out home / family size and better shows the market impact of the property price.

Rent-to-income is better than home pricee-to-income because rentals turn over much more frequently and inflates faster than mortgages, and it is usually where new / young / relocators land (which is the majority of the people on this forum). Of that group, I would think average incomes are much higher as these are the only people who can afford today's prices.

I couldn't have said it ANY better Sassberto! Spot on target as usual.

Originally Posted by docmcstuffin

I agree income doesn't tell the entire picture. You and I are not the norm (saving for retirement, college education, etc). I know many who make much less than me and they're surviving. They just don't have much in retirement, not because they couldn't, but because they have by the latest bling. They're OK w/ depending on SS when they "retire". They don't have for kids' education. They leave it up to the kids to get their own student loan. I would those are the vast majority and what you and I do is not typical.

I agree with you that larger income doesn't always mean higher net worth. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anyway to find that data. What if those people w/ $100k income have $200-300k saved up for a down payment when they move here because they've been living in a low cost area. Unless we have a complete picture of their finances, knowing just income or just expense won't be enough.

Docmcstuffin. Absolutely you and I are NOT the norm. But when I post comments and give advice it's NOT based on MY situation. It's typically based on the everyday typical parent that are trying to live the "American dream" (i.e. saving for retirement, setting aside at least some college savings for their kids, keeping an emergency/reserve fund, live in a safe area and send their kids to good public schools for a quality education, take the occasional annual vacation, etc).

As we mentioned in the other thread. There is a difference between "surviving" and trying to accomplish all one's goals. But please don't make any mistakes that the advice I'm giving out is based on MY situation or anyone being in MY situation. As that simply is not the case.

The vast majority of sensible people that understand and lived in San Diego for many years will probably confirm that the advice I give out is pretty much spot on target. The fact remains, San Diego is NOT a good option for large amounts of people that simply can't afford it.

As mentioned many times, the economy and job market here are mediocre (putting it very nicely). Salaries will always be lower and real estate will ALWAYS be expensive here. That isn't going to change in the future.

[hitman619]

It's weird!
Most people in the San Carlos/North La Mesa area are retired and own their homes out right,yet It's still showing median income at 84k???

Edit: Sass/retirement explained it!

[futbol]

The city-data.com pages for each city also show this information.

For example, here is the page for Poway:

//www.city-data.com/zips/92064.html