Poway Schools--Recent Changes? (San Diego, El Cajon, Madera: real estate, homes, purchase)

[tb001]

We've been looking at relocating to the poway area, in part because we keep hearing about how great the schools are. As I've been looking at real estate listings, it seems like many of the school ratings have dropped significantly recently. Any insight as to what may be happening here?

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by tb001

We've been looking at relocating to the poway area, in part because we keep hearing about how great the schools are. As I've been looking at real estate listings, it seems like many of the school ratings have dropped significantly recently. Any insight as to what may be happening here?

If you're looking at "ratings" from the site GreatSchools.com, the site recently changed their methodology for "rating" schools. Because they are now looking at more than just test scores, the ratings for many schools (not just in Poway) also changed. (see for example: https://www.marketplace.org/2017/11/...more-inclusive)

The schools themselves haven't changed. The Poway schools are still great and the Poway USD is still one of the best districts in San Diego County.

While "ratings" from a website can be a helpful starting point, they don't tell you whether a particular school is going to be a great match for your particular child or what your child's experience will be like at that school. For that, you need to dig deeper.

In addition to "ratings" I'd suggest looking school's state-required School Accountability Report Cards (you can find Poway's here: https://www.powayusd.com/Schools/Sch...strict-Reports) and comparing that information to your children's current school. At the high school level, also check each school's website for the School Profile, which is a report that high schools send to colleges, which will tell you quite a bit more about the academic programs and where graduates end up.

And, of course, see if you can make an appointment before the end of the year for a tour of the school(s) your children will be assigned to in Poway based on your future address. That will give you a chance to talk to administrators and teachers about the school.

We also have a number of parents who live in Poway who are regular visitors to this forum, so when you know the specific schools in Poway Unified that your children will be attending, try asking about that school here to see if there are any other parents who have experience with that school.

In the end, the only school "rating" that really matters is YOURS, and that will be based on how well a particular school is matches your child's individual needs, interests, and capabilities.

Good luck with your move!

[tb001]

Thanks Rosie, I was hoping you would chime in! Thanks for your thoughtful response. It was indeed the great schools rating I was looking at. I'll do some more reading on the changes to methodology.

Both Tierra Bonita Elementary and Twin Peaks Middle School have dropped from 9 to 7, which is a decent drop. Some of the other schools in the Poway area haven't had the same type of changes to their rating.

While the schools may be the same, I can't imagine this doesn't impact property values in these districts. I think it's a big part of why we were looking in the area.

[capoeira]

Originally Posted by tb001

Both Tierra Bonita Elementary and Twin Peaks Middle School have dropped from 9 to 7, which is a decent drop. Some of the other schools in the Poway area haven't had the same type of changes to their rating.

While the schools may be the same, I can't imagine this doesn't impact property values in these districts. I think it's a big part of why we were looking in the area.

Both of those schools are still ranked "9" according to the California School rating website.

Tierra Bonita Elementary in Poway , CA - ranking, school information, ratings, test scores, test results

Twin Peaks Middle in Poway , CA - ranking, school information, ratings, test scores, test results

What appears to have brought their greatschools rating down is the "equality rating" of a 3. I would never make a home purchase decision based on a bs equality rating of some random website.

[tb001]

Originally Posted by capoeira

Both of those schools are still ranked "9" according to the California School rating website.

Tierra Bonita Elementary in Poway , CA - ranking, school information, ratings, test scores, test results

Twin Peaks Middle in Poway , CA - ranking, school information, ratings, test scores, test results

What appears to have brought their greatschools rating down is the "equality rating" of a 3. I would never make a home purchase decision based on a bs equality rating of some random website.

Yes, really interesting to look at the drivers behind the data. I had looked at the school ratings site, and saw good numbers, but was concerned that it may be dated. It looks like both schools are still very high performers on the areas that matter to me. It does concern me that it may impact property values if the numbers stay suppressed. Not everyone is going to dig into the data.

[cruitr]

When our Clairemont schools rate the same as Poway schools, something is wrong. All of my Clairemont neighbors with kids either 'choice out' to La Jolla schools or University City schools or pay for private schools.

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by cruitr

When our Clairemont schools rate the same as Poway schools, something is wrong. All of my Clairemont neighbors with kids either 'choice out' to La Jolla schools or University City schools or pay for private schools.

Again, take a close look at how GreatSchools methodology changed.

Previously, their methodology gave the heaviest weight to just test scores. Because socio-economic factors play so heavily into test scores, this gave schools with wealthier and less diverse student populations better ratings than schools with less wealthy and more diverse student populations. Simply put: kids who come from wealthier families with better educated parents do better on tests regardless of the school they attend.

One of the changes GreatSchools made in its methodology is to give " disparities between different racial and income groups" weight in their ratings.

So, it makes sense to me that schools in a more socio-economically diverse area like Clairemont is now rated closer to less socio-economically diverse areas like Poway.

The schools themselves haven't changed. The website's rating methodology has.


That points out why ratings created by a for--profit website should only be considered a starting point for comparing schools. Ratings don't tell you much about the experience an individual student will have at an individual school. To understand that, you have to dig deeper than what some website that doesn't know your child OR has ever visited the school says.

I linked to this article earlier, but it is worth re-posting.

GreatSchools overhauls ratings to be more inclusive

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by tb001

Yes, really interesting to look at the drivers behind the data. I had looked at the school ratings site, and saw good numbers, but was concerned that it may be dated. It looks like both schools are still very high performers on the areas that matter to me. It does concern me that it may impact property values if the numbers stay suppressed. Not everyone is going to dig into the data.

Have you already researched the Poway USD Capital Bonds issue? That has the potential to have just as much, if not more, effect on home prices in Poway in the long term than individual school quality.

Also, the state-mandated school accountability report cards are updated every year. If you can't find the most current ones on the Poway USD site I linked to above, call the specific school office and ask for the most recent copy.

And, do visit the schools if you have the opportunity to do so. Talking to parents whose kids attend a school is also a good way to get more insights. But, obviously, in the end, a great school for one kid might be a so-so one for another kid for reasons that have nothing to do with Greatschool ratings.

That said, I do agree with you that it takes an involved parent to do this sort of leg work. That is why for-profit sites like Greatschools are able to make money; they give parents an easy out. But, when my kids were little, I found that the easy way wasn't necessarily the best way to make sure my kids were getting a great education.

[socketz]

Rosie,

Poway is not Socioeconomically diverse?

True of maybe RB, but Poway has entry level blue collar types (most bought homes prior to the housing boom) all the way up to CEOs and Professional athletes living in Maderas and Valle Verde Estates.

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2...ing-stick.html

Beginning Thursday, the site will also rate schools based on student growth from year to year, and, for secondary schools, on graduation rates, Advanced Placement offerings and enrollment, and students’ average performance on college placement tests. It also includes an “equity” rating, based on whether there are achievement gaps for students from racial minority groups, those in poverty, and those with special needs, as well as on how students in those groups fare compared to similar students statewide.

Perhaps this is where Twin Peaks Middle suffered?

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by socketz

Rosie,

Poway is not Socioeconomically diverse?

Just because a school district has some blue collar workers living in it doesn't make it socio-economically diverse. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the median household income in Poway (city of) is $98,859, which is among the highest in the county and well above the county-wide, statewide, and national median household income. Just 5.9% of Poway residents meet Federal poverty definitions.

By comparison, the median income in the city of El Cajon is $46,374 and the percent of El Cajon residents living below the Federal poverty line is 24%.

So, no, even if there are some folks with lower incomes living in Poway, it is a stretch to say Poway is economically diverse.

In terms of schools though, you would really need to dig down into the student demographics for individual schools to see how they compare and to put their test scores into context. Someone above mentioned Clairemont Mesa. So, let's compare the socioeconomic diversity at Poway High to Clairemont High ( They're different sizes, but I can get my my hands on the data for them quickly so that's why I picked these two).

At Poway H.S., 17% of students qualify for the Federal Free/Reduced lunch program, which is based on family income and size. At Clairemont High School, 56% qualify for the Federal Free/Reduced lunch program.

So, on that measure alone, Clairemont High School is far less "socio-economically diverse."

We could also compare factors like the percentage of students who come from homes where parents attended college, who are ESL students, and also racial demographics, and it's highly likely that Poway High School is always going to come out as being less diverse than Clairemont High School, but you get the idea.

The reasoning behind Great Schools ratings methodology change is simple enough: kids from poor families, kids from families where parents didn't go to college, ESL kids, and kids from certain racial groups are invariably going to be more challenged by standardized tests than kids from middle class/wealthier families, from families where at least one parent went to college, kids for whom English is their native language, and kids from white and Asian families.

So, comparing schools based solely on test scores doesn't paint an accurate comparison. Don't get me wrong: test scores are important and I always look at them first when I'm comparing schools. No one wants to send their kid to a school where the median test scores are far below state or national averages. But test scores need to be looked at within the context of the students the school is educating.

Hope that makes sense.