New bikes lanes (San Diego: 2014, credit, loans)

[Axxlrod]

Originally Posted by newgensandiego

Frankly, most of our problems as a country today are related to sprawl and cars. Environmental, fiscal, health, socioeconomic, etc.

I'd love to see evidence of these assertions. They seem pretty baseless.

[newgensandiego]

Originally Posted by Axxlrod

I'd love to see evidence of these assertions. They seem pretty baseless.

Happy to share!

Environmental
Automobile and the Environment in American History: Introduction

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/e...mental-impact/


Socioeconomic:
https://grist.org/cities/how-suburba...ates-the-poor/

Sprawl, segregation, and mobility | City Observatory

https://vtpi.org/autodep.pdf

Fiscal:
https://mobilitylab.org/2015/07/16/n...cipal-coffers/

https://www.cgoodman.com/files/paper...penditures.pdf

General:
https://urbanpolicy.berkeley.edu/pdf.../jargowsky.pdf

It's very easy to research. It's also just common sense: building massive amounts of infrastructure at low-density means more burden on the average taxpayer.

Back to your assertion...got any evidence? Because there is loads of evidence on the impacts of bike lanes that really only discuss the positives. I'm genuinely curious...I've struggled to find literature or examples that substantiate the negatives of bike lanes. Bike lanes aren't a good fit for every street, so I'm just trying to figure out situations in which they fail...

If we're going to fear-monger, let's at least substantiate it with data or evidence!

https://www.aarp.org/livable-communi...ide-bikes.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60412014002980

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...fit-businesses

[T. Damon]

I’ve seen few upgraded (at least in my mind) streets including marked bike/scooter lanes, often with protected car median parking- especially downtown/core that I am against. These include the recently announced 30’ sidewalk, planted median, bike lanes and two car lanes upgrades on 14th and five other downtown streets to enhance the pedestrian experience. The few car-only proponents can eat asphalt on most of these but sometimes the planning is still wrong.

As a choose a car alternative kind of guy I would greatly benefit from and love the 30th street proposal but it’s wrong and reduces way too many parking places for tenuous commercial shops in an expensive lease area. Utah or Granada just west of 30th are broad little traveled streets ideal for defined bike infrastructure.

It’s not cut and dry but more bikes and lanes for them are almost always the sign of a positive thing for an urban area.

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by newgensandiego

I'd love to see evidence of these assertions. They seem pretty baseless

If you can’t see with your own two eyes that more cars were using these lanes previously than bikes are now you’re either blind or only see what you want to? Asking for evidence in this matter is laughable. How about showing evidence that more bikes than cars are now using these lanes?

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

If you can’t see with your own two eyes that more cars were using these lanes previously than bikes are now you’re either blind or only see what you want to? Asking for evidence in this matter is laughable. How about showing evidence that more bikes than cars are now using these lanes?

That poster has always been anti car.

[newgensandiego]

Originally Posted by Mike930

That poster has always been anti car.

Does that hurt your feelings? Yes, cars should be minimized (and slowed down) in urban environments. God forbid that 0.1% of our city's lane miles are dedicated to something other than cars. Oh the horror!

[newgensandiego]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

If you can’t see with your own two eyes that more cars were using these lanes previously than bikes are now you’re either blind or only see what you want to? Asking for evidence in this matter is laughable. How about showing evidence that more bikes than cars are now using these lanes?

First off, calm down.

I'm not making any assertions. I am casting doubt on knee-jerk reactions.

Hardly used compared to the number of cars that used the now-removed traffic lanes or cars that parked in the spaces.

I'd be surprised to find the traffic lanes assertion untrue...in San Diego at least. As for parking, you'd need a parking utilization study to determine turnover and use. I'd suspect that many of the parking spaces to be removed have very limited use, particularly in residential segments (possibly no turnover over multiple days). That would then need to be compared with the corridor bike use at system (citywide) build-out. I wouldn't be surprised if many blocks were better utilized as bike lanes than parking.

Ultimately, the bigger question is whether we prioritize free storage of private property on public land over mobility for other users. Especially when there is plenty of adjacent on-street parking that is completely unregulated and free.

traffic gets snarled due to now only having a single lane, and businesses suffer as customers now have a problem finding a place to park.

Firstly, this is location and design-specific, so no need for the knee-jerk reaction.

Replacing parking with bike lanes may actually reduce snarled traffic, simply because there are no more conflicts with parked cars. No delays waiting for people to wedge into a spot and no conflicts with people accessing their vehicles. Secondly, bike lanes can provide a buffer between parked cars and travel lanes, which can greatly reduce conflicts. Bike lanes often serve as traffic calming devices, which reduces conflicts with all modes and greatly improves safety (which is more important than shaving 5 seconds off your travel time or getting that perfect spot 30 feet closer). Nothing snarls traffic more than an accident or bad parker!

It's disingenuous to make these claims about bike lanes without referencing the specific intersection, corridor, segment, etc. There will be cases of bike lanes inconveniencing drivers, but there will also be examples of bike lanes improving mobility and safety for all users.

The point of "businesses suffering" is unsubstantiated. Every example I've found refutes this claim. (but I'm still on the lookout).

Lastly...I'm not a bicyclist. But I see the value of bike lanes as a driver and pedestrian. Personally, I'm really big on the traffic safety argument (which, admittedly you don't need bike lanes for traffic calming). San Diego's pedestrian death totals rival our homicides. How embarrassing is that? It's completely preventable...as long as we design our streets for the multiple users...not just for cars zipping through neighborhoods. I could not care less about people whining about not getting their free on-street parking or having to walk a block.

My biggest concern is ADA accessibility (parking). A very legitimate argument that the city needs to address.

[Axxlrod]

Sounds like the city planners I have to deal with when I am getting a building permit to build a new building.

Full of ideas that sound great to newly-minted college graduates that haven't yet spent much time in the real world. No experience in reality; just time spent inside liberal think-tanks (college classrooms) being indoctrinated and then regurgitated inside a bubble of common thought.

[newgensandiego]

Originally Posted by Axxlrod

Sounds like the city planners I have to deal with when I am getting a building permit to build a new building.

Full of ideas that sound great to newly-minted college graduates that haven't yet spent much time in the real world. No experience in reality; just time spent inside liberal think-tanks (college classrooms) being indoctrinated and then regurgitated inside a bubble of common thought.

Sounds like someone who can't substantiate a claim and needs to attack the individual instead of the argument.

But then again, we now live in a world where data, science, and education don't matter. The building contractor said bike lanes hurt businesses, so we should just believe them contrary to multiple examples of the opposite happening. Imagine a world run by everyone's gut feeling. As someone in the construction industry, I hope you don't construct buildings that way!

[Axxlrod]

Uh, relax. Wasn't attacking YOU.