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I am a 22 year old freshly college graduate and I have received an opportunity to work in either San Francisco or NYC with one of the Big 4 Accounting Firms in their Advisory division. As far as wages go I will be getting about 2k extra in NYC since cost of living is high (not that cost of living in SF is about just as high as well :P), so it really doesn't matter too much in the wages I am having hard time deciding which location I should pick to spend the next x amount of years of my life. I have read the other NYC vs San Fran posts but it was hard to pick still because people had their respective differences.
To make things easier for everyone I was hoping you all could give me some suggestions based on these hobbies/interests/qualities of me!:
- I get weirdly allergic in the summer and living in North Texas for a good portion of my life summers were hell because the pollen and other stuff were really severe. Which area would have less cedar, pine, etc. in the air so I won't have to suffer as much as I had to when I lived in Texas!
- As far as wages go I will be getting about 2k extra in NYC since cost of living is high (not that cost of living in SF is about just as high as well :P), so which city would be relatively "easier going" on the money for buying a place in the surrounding areas or maybe even in the city?
- I am a big user of public transportation. With Metro NYC being the most common I guess i will give this point to NYC? I have heard great things about San Francisco Bart Transportation to!
- I'm a huge foodie. I love exploring local city restaurants and a variety of other international and various other cuisines. In this sense which one is better?
- I am a BIG fine arts fan, especially art and film. Which city would be better for exploring the fine arts such as orchestras/symphonies, film scene, and art scene?
- I am an avid runner and I enjoy going on runs with beautiful scenery around me. Which city would offer this?
- I am a safety freak (like everyone else over here probably!), which city would be "safer" to live in. I understand crime is going to be pretty high in either of these cities because since the are major major cities but I guess which one is better for a younger person like me?
- I am seeking a young vibrant city! I always viewed both of these cities as pretty funky fresh, vibrant and young and studying in Austin for 4 years I wanted my next place of residence to capture the vibrant and young essence of Austin. Which would help display that experience?
- I am hoping to seek a smooth job transition in the future. I definitely don't want to stay in Big 4 Accounting the rest of my life. Which city offers a friendly job transitioning for professionals?
- I am also very spiritual and try to experience all religions. What city would give me the best opportunities/variety to visit various Temples, Synagogues, and Mosques?
- Overall though which is the best city for a young working individual like me?
Any help/suggestions/feedback/comments would be greatly appreciated!
I live in the Bay Area, used to live in Austin, and have spent a lot of time in New York. Here are some answers to your questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artfuldodger23
Hey everyone,
I am a 22 year old freshly college graduate and I have received an opportunity to work in either San Francisco or NYC with one of the Big 4 Accounting Firms in their Advisory division. As far as wages go I will be getting about 2k extra in NYC since cost of living is high (not that cost of living in SF is about just as high as well :P), so it really doesn't matter too much in the wages I am having hard time deciding which location I should pick to spend the next x amount of years of my life. I have read the other NYC vs San Fran posts but it was hard to pick still because people had their respective differences.
To make things easier for everyone I was hoping you all could give me some suggestions based on these hobbies/interests/qualities of me!:
- I get weirdly allergic in the summer and living in North Texas for a good portion of my life summers were hell because the pollen and other stuff were really severe. Which area would have less cedar, pine, etc. in the air so I won't have to suffer as much as I had to when I lived in Texas!
I think either of these would be an improvement over Texas as far as allergies go.
- As far as wages go I will be getting about 2k extra in NYC since cost of living is high (not that cost of living in SF is about just as high as well :P), so which city would be relatively "easier going" on the money for buying a place in the surrounding areas or maybe even in the city?
The bay area and New York are roughly equal in cost of housing. If you are moving from Texas, they will both shock you and the salary you have been offered will not look as good once you have moved. If you want to buy in SF proper, you should plan on paying around 500K for a decent small apartment (not decent as in fancy, decent as in not in the ghetto and basically structurally sound), prices are much better in the East Bay, which is where most young people live anyway. However, it isn't really a good time to buy in the Bay Area, wait till the next housing crash.
- I am a big user of public transportation. With Metro NYC being the most common I guess i will give this point to NYC? I have heard great things about San Francisco Bart Transportation to!
Public transit in New York is much better than in the Bay Area; there is no contest.
- I'm a huge foodie. I love exploring local city restaurants and a variety of other international and various other cuisines. In this sense which one is better?
In this sense, the Bay Area probably wins. The restaurants in the bay area are generally more interesting and higher quality. There are also better farmer's markets and greater availability of high quality fresh produce and meat in the bay area.
- I am a BIG fine arts fan, especially art and film. Which city would be better for exploring the fine arts such as orchestras/symphonies, film scene, and art scene?
New York, no question.
- I am an avid runner and I enjoy going on runs with beautiful scenery around me. Which city would offer this?
The bay area is a better place for running. It has great weather year round and excellent trails, including a trail around the edge of most of the bay, which provides beautiful scenery for your run. As a sweeping generalization, the bay area tends to have a bigger focus on exercise and health than New York.
- I am a safety freak (like everyone else over here probably!), which city would be "safer" to live in. I understand crime is going to be pretty high in either of these cities because since the are major major cities but I guess which one is better for a younger person like me?
New York is one of the safest cities in the world. There are some areas to avoid, but generally it is at least as safe as Austin. The bay area has a problem with violent crime, most of this is gang war, but there are also a lot of armed robberies. I am not really sure what your financial situation is, but in the bay area, at most entry level wages, you will have to live either in suburbia or in a neighborhood which has some crime.
- I am seeking a young vibrant city! I always viewed both of these cities as pretty funky fresh, vibrant and young and studying in Austin for 4 years I wanted my next place of residence to capture the vibrant and young essence of Austin. Which would help display that experience?
Neither of these will feel at all like Austin. They are both rat races that crush youth. Not that this is necessarily bad. There is a vibrant young trust fund kid culture both places, but if you have to work as an accountant, you aren't welcome. Prepare for more networking at boutique small plate places than hanging out with friends at backyard barbeques.
- I am hoping to seek a smooth job transition in the future. I definitely don't want to stay in Big 4 Accounting the rest of my life. Which city offers a friendly job transitioning for professionals?
Bay area is better if you want to transition into tech; New York if you want to transition into finance.
- I am also very spiritual and try to experience all religions. What city would give me the best opportunities/variety to visit various Temples, Synagogues, and Mosques?
Both of these places have virtually every type of religious institution you can imagine.
- Overall though which is the best city for a young working individual like me?
Any help/suggestions/feedback/comments would be greatly appreciated!
Food-NY wins by a slight margin. Just by sheer amounts of restaurants alone, you will find amazing food experiences in NY, but while living in the Bay Area, I always found great restaurants.
Safety- I disagree that NY is safer. Also, due to a huge population, NY feels a bit scarier than SF, and I'm a native NY'er. I never was scared walking around SF.
Mass Transit- More options in NY, BUT, most of it is filthy and crowded. I can count on two hands how many times I had issues with the BART in 7 years. NY always seems to have stoppages/delays, etc, due to old decrepit subway systems.
I have a different opinion on the food winner: I pick SF. Mostly because in the Bay Area there are tons of amazing midrange places, and in NYC you have to pay a lot more to get similar quality. At the top end NYC wins. And NYC wins if you like delis. But overall I think the Bay Area wins, for people with an average budget.
There are cuisines that aren't well represented in SF proper, so you might want to travel to other parts of the Bay to get better food, but on the whole, we have tons of variety. And loads of creativity is evident (and high quality ingredients) in places with entrees in the under $20 entree range.
I have a different opinion on the food winner: I pick SF. Mostly because in the Bay Area there are tons of amazing midrange places, and in NYC you have to pay a lot more to get similar quality. At the top end NYC wins. And NYC wins if you like delis. But overall I think the Bay Area wins, for people with an average budget.
There are cuisines that aren't well represented in SF proper, so you might want to travel to other partsof the Bay to get better food, but on the whole, we have tons of variety. And loads of creativity is evident (and high quality ingredients) in places with entrees in the under $20 entree range.
Regarding the bold part, that's true, towns like Walnut Creek seem to have almost every kind of cuisine.
Food: Both are great, SF probably edges out NYC for creativity, NYC wins for diversity
Arts: NYC
Running: SF
Safety: I feel comfortable walking down any street in Manhattan south of 125th at any time of day or night. I have felt sketched out in SF during daylight. NYC.
Jobs: Probably NYC, unless you're interested in tech.
Religions: If being in a city with a large presence of Jews and an important Jewish history is important to you, NYC. Otherwise tie.
- Overall though which is the best city for a young working individual like me?
I would pick NYC. Maybe you should try to visit. For almost all the answers above, the losing city only loses by a little bit. Come see where you like the vibe better. The cities have a very different vibe from each other, and from Texas.
NYC is your town. I lived there for two years and was just there for three weeks. The natural beauty angle isn't as nice there but people definitely run. Make sure to try to find a place near the water (easy as Manhattan is a peninsula and places like Williamsburg and others are right on the water.) I was uptown and saw tons of people enjoying the route along Riverside drive.
Plus, you're young and NYC is so much fun.
On my last trip I literally went to the Metropolitan Museum 4 days in a row and met friends on their rooftop for drinks the first week I was there. There are tons of great museums but it's also a city full of contemporary artists who are on their own respective paths to glory, obscurity or something in between. It's a great city.
I love both cities and chose to leave NYC to come back to the Bay Area but for all that you listed? NYC is where you should go.
(BTW, the tech sector there is huge too. Not as huge as the Silicon Valley but tons of start-ups are there too. Right now, a lot of people I know bounce back and forth between NYC and the Bay Area. It's really a non-issue.)
To make things easier for everyone I was hoping you all could give me some suggestions based on these hobbies/interests/qualities of me!:
- I get weirdly allergic in the summer and living in North Texas for a good portion of my life summers were hell because the pollen and other stuff were really severe. Which area would have less cedar, pine, etc. in the air so I won't have to suffer as much as I had to when I lived in Texas!
- I am not sure what kind of trees SF and the Bay Area have in particular except for redwoods, cypresses, and eucalyptus, but there are a lot of rugged natural areas surrounding SF and I am not sure if that would irritate your allergies. NYC seems to be pretty devoid of greenery besides Central Park. The natural areas surrounding NYC are further out whereas in SF they are just minutes outside the city and even parts within SF can be quite natural and rugged. With that said, the overall air quality in terms of smog is much better in SF. SF probably has the best air quality in the nation for a city of its density/size. The wind comes in from the Pacific and just blows all the smog away.
- As far as wages go I will be getting about 2k extra in NYC since cost of living is high (not that cost of living in SF is about just as high as well :P), so which city would be relatively "easier going" on the money for buying a place in the surrounding areas or maybe even in the city?
I think the price points are about the same in both SF and NYC but in SF you generally get newer and a little more square footage for your money, and sometimes you can be surprised and score a unit with a nice view which would be much more difficult to obtain in NYC. It is also easier to live in cities that are cheaper outside of SF and commute in than to do that in NYC. NYC is a enormously huge urban area, so you have to go further out to reach the quieter, cheaper areas. SF is not actually a big city- only 7 miles by 7 miles. The metro is large for the US but not compared to NYC metro area and LA metro area.
- I am a big user of public transportation. With Metro NYC being the most common I guess i will give this point to NYC? I have heard great things about San Francisco Bart Transportation to!
The public transit in SF is not even close to what it is in NYC for a few reasons: 1. It is not as extensive and service is not as frequent 2. It is not used by an egalitarian populace as much as in NYC, meaning the wealthy professionals in SF tend to drive their cars more whereas in NYC you see more professionals riding in it and less people own cars in NYC 3. It is actually pretty expensive to ride the transit in SF in terms of cost to ride, time it takes to get from one place to another. The one or two things I hated about the metro in NYC though was the deafening noise level of the subways, and the horrible smells!
Rail network:
NYC wins, because it is extensive and goes everywhere, frequent trains, at any hour, can truly not own a car
Cost to ride:
NYC is cheaper to ride I think
Cleanliness:
SF - Less litter and thugs at stations, but more dirtiness from homeless and crazy people, i.e. urine and fecal material, needles
NYC - Gangsters at some stations though highly dependent on which areas, litter and rats, horrible pungent smells esp. when humid
Pleasant atmosphere:
SF - Less crowded but can get crowded during peak times, but not as bad as NYC, train is much quieter
NYC - Gets very crowded and train riders can get pretty aggressive, very loud trains with screeching metal at unhealthy decibel levels
Types of people on trains:
NYC - more of a cross section of different people and you can even see bankers ride the subways, the very rich probably ride taxis and have personal drivers
SF - sometimes you'll encounter crazy folks who yell loudly on the trains, some regular folks, but in general more of the professional class in SF drive and do not ride the trains
- I'm a huge foodie. I love exploring local city restaurants and a variety of other international and various other cuisines. In this sense which one is better?
SF wins for quality and freshness of produce, more good Asian and Mexican cuisine. More healthy options. Proximity to wine country gives also an extensive wine culture here. Great grocery stores and and farmers markets.
NYC probably has better extremely expensive restaurants within the city limits (although I wasn't impressed the few times I tried). Produce in NYC tends to be crappy. Grocery stores crappy. Excels in "junk foods" like having the best pizza, hot dogs, and stuff like that.
- I am a BIG fine arts fan, especially art and film. Which city would be better for exploring the fine arts such as orchestras/symphonies, film scene, and art scene?
NYC hands down. SF has what I think of as a pseudo art scene. Lots of people who appreciate art, but they try to recreate it and import it from elsewhere. It isn't like a real deep homegrown scene whereas NYC produced people like Andy Warhol.
- I am an avid runner and I enjoy going on runs with beautiful scenery around me. Which city would offer this?
SF - more different places to run, beautiful natural places. Weather is more mild year round so you can do it year round and lots of people are exercise freaks here so you will easily find people to exercise with our keep you motivated. Lots of other types of outdoor activities too. I'd say fitness is one of the pillars of SF culture. I'd be surprised if you didn't lose some weight once you moved here. You also see less fat/chubby people in the city.
But, NYC also has their marathons and you can run like Rocky Balboa if you wanted. But it is harder within the residential blocks of Manhattan for instance because of crowding and crosswalks. You'd probably have to go to the edge of the Hudson River or Central Park first. Whereas in SF you can almost always pretty much run right when you get our your front door with not much interruption.
- I am a safety freak (like everyone else over here probably!), which city would be "safer" to live in. I understand crime is going to be pretty high in either of these cities because since the are major major cities but I guess which one is better for a younger person like me?
I think NYC feels less safe because a lot of thugs hanging out in the city in groups. But SF has some crazy people that are kind of threatening. But overall, I feel I can avoid problem areas easier in SF than in NYC, maybe cause I have a car. But in NYC, an area that is nice tends to be more contiguous with surrounding areas, so you can walk a long time without entering a bad area. But in SF it is rather patchy. One block is okay, then 4 blocks over it is a gang zone.
- I am seeking a young vibrant city! I always viewed both of these cities as pretty funky fresh, vibrant and young and studying in Austin for 4 years I wanted my next place of residence to capture the vibrant and young essence of Austin. Which would help display that experience?
NYC is very energetic, fast paced, exhilarating, and vibrant. It is the city that never sleeps. Lots of ambition and wide eyed young folks who want to make it. SF is actually a pretty sleepy town. It is the place you go to enjoy life but also unwind and enjoy a slower pace- a bit more European I'd say. Whereas NYC is a place to reach for the sky and never stop. If you were to move to SF, you might always be curious about NYC. If you can wing it, live in NYC first while you are young and then get out later on- after awhile it wears you down but you will have had a great growth experience. These days, it isn't just about moving from your hometown or small city to the big city, it is about moving to the big city and then moving again, and again. One thing I've learned is that permanence is an illusion!
- I am hoping to seek a smooth job transition in the future. I definitely don't want to stay in Big 4 Accounting the rest of my life. Which city offers a friendly job transitioning for professionals?
I think both. NYC, I think has broader job opportunities because it has more different industries. SF is more focused in a few industries but in those few it has great depth, examples: computer technology, biotechnology, healthcare.
But I find the NYC work atmosphere to be even more competitive, stressful, and fast paced. You will have to work longer and harder but there will be big rewards if you get on the right path. In SF, many people work hard too and as much as people on here say people in SF are workaholics, the level it is in NYC is on a whole other playing field. But I see more examples of regular folks becoming millionaires in SF than in NYC. This usually occurs through successful tech IPOs. Think people like Steve Jobs, Jack Dorsey, the Google guys, etc.
- I am also very spiritual and try to experience all religions. What city would give me the best opportunities/variety to visit various Temples, Synagogues, and Mosques?
I don't know much about mosques, but I almost feel like NYC and the east coast are more likely to have something against them because of 9/11 and more recently, the Boston bombings. - Overall though which is the best city for a young working individual like me?
NYC has a higher metabolism if that is what you want. Everything you do will be faster and more intense. When you work, you will work hard, when you play, you play hard. When you walk, you walk fast. When you speak, you will shout (because it is loud there). When you spend money, you will spend it fast (because it is expensive). When news spreads, it spreads fast. You will have trouble sleeping. One month will feel like a year. Things will happen to you in a smaller space of time than anywhere else in this country. The stimuli in the environment will train your eyes to look fast and focus. Your mind will become sharp and quick. You will have to increase your reaction time. Often, you will experience or see some crazy thing happen on your way home (manhole explosion, street fight, you name it) and when you get back you have to tell your roommate about it. While doing so, you feel like you are in an episode of Seinfeld. And you think to yourself, now I've seen it all. It will make you jaded. You will get tired sometimes of being in the city. You will feel like escaping and getting some peace. When you do go out of town, you will feel a little anxiety about coming back. But the whole world will seem like it is in NYC. Everywhere else will seem dull after that.
SF, while interesting, is more laid back. It is part of California after all. In SF, you will find you will start becoming a healthier person. You will eat fresh, organic and vegetarian a lot more. Asian cuisine will definitely be on the menu. You will shop at the farmers market and get into cooking at home. You will find you are spending more time outdoors. You will jog along the waterfront, then ride a bike, then join friends for hiking. You will find yourself losing some weight overtime. The bars close earlier, so you will stop drinking earlier in the evening. But you will find you enjoy wine and cocktails everywhere you go. You will take weekend or day trips to wine country. You will start to feel healthy, but the city will start to feel small. So you start booking trips. You visit So Cal. You visit NYC. You plan to visit Asia. Then when you can afford to, you visit Europe. You start to realize how much you enjoy the European lifestyle. Somewhere along the way you will feel an urge to work on a creative project. In the beginning, you will want to dress up in a crazy costume and participate in events like Bay to Breakers. Sometimes you will feel like something is missing in SF, but when you go out of town you want to come back for some reason. When the plane lands on the runway at SF International, you will see the golden afternoon sunshine through the window and be glad you are coming home to SF. You might become very complacent, but you will be smitten and spoiled by the beauty of the city and the bay.
Last edited by mini_cute; 06-07-2013 at 06:36 PM..
Regarding the bold part, that's true, towns like Walnut Creek seem to have almost every kind of cuisine.
Most towns in the Bay Area have good variety. But some places are hot beds for certain cuisines. Loads of Vietnamese in San Jose. Ethiopian is abundant in Oakland......
I grew up in SF but have been to NYC a number of times. I actually just got back from a week there last night. Never has 65F felt so warm lol. I'll give you my opinion in an unbiased manner as possible.
-Allergies: Both are going to be better than Texas, but you might have a harder time in SF and the Bay Area if you're sensitive to air pollution NYC MIGHT be better. My friend's who have allergies think the North Bay is a nightmare when it comes to allergies.
-Expenses: This simply depends on where you are choosing to live. A apartment in Manhattan will run you more than in SF. Travel expenses are a bit more in NYC(besides taxis) and I've found restaurants to be a bit more expensive. If you drink, alcohol also seems more expensive. But we're not talking about huge differences. Both cities are two of the most expensive in America.
-Public Transportation: Both cities have very good public transportation. But NYC has more expansive services. You don't need a car in either city. Also, traffic is worse in SF and the Bay Area in general than NYC and the greater NYC area.
-Food: If you're a huge foodie as you claim, SF will be paradise for you. Although many will disagree with me, I feel like you're much more likely to get a great meal at your average restaurant in SF than you are in NYC. Most of the time when a local tells me "this is the best place for *insert cuisine* in NYC" I'm not usually that impressed. I feel that you're more likely to get a great meal in SF than NYC, and without having to spend a huge some of money. That being said, NYC has better Eastern European and Middle Eastern food. The little halal carts rival most Arab delis in SF and the Bay Area(Sadly)
-Arts: NYC wins this easily. No American city tops NYC in this category.
-Running outdoor activities: San Francisco wins this easily. Year round mild weather, rolling hills, great natural beauty. Plus you can run year round in SF. Try going for a nice job in NYC right now.
-Safety: You need to be street smart in most major American cities. That being said, NYC is safer than SF. NYC has a reputation as a "dangerous" city while SF has a reputation as a safe city. Both these reputations are largely untrue. I've never felt intimidated in any part of Manhattan, including in Harlem. I can't say the same for some areas of SF. Also, the Bay Area has many areas that struggle with violent crime. Oakland, East Palo Alto, Richmond- they have all been given the title of "Murder capital" at some point or another. The Bay Area is also one of the only metro areas to have multiple cities ranked in the top 10 most dangerous cities in America lists. That being said, most parts of the Bay Area are safe and with basic street smarts, crime shouldn't be an issue.
-Vibrant: NYC is more vibrant than SF. But SF is no slouch in this category. SF often ranks 2nd or 3rd(sometimes behind Chicago) for cultural festivities, etc.
-Religious diversity: I guess by shear numbers alone, NYC would win this. But its really not an issue with either city. Both have many religious institutions. I pass by a number of churches, temples and mosques everywhere I go in SF and its the same thing in NYC. But by shear numbers, I guess NYC wins this category.
Which city is better for you? Well that will just come down to you. Check out both cities and choose for yourself. You'll probably be happy in either city. You're choosing between two of the best cities in America. No city in America can match SF's mix of natural beauty with urban amenities and no American city is more urban amenities than NYC. Both are great and good luck where ever you go.
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