Better Place To Work Stanford or Berkeley (San Francisco, Oakland: middle-class, apartments)

[RedSoxFanNLA]

I've been offered positions at both schools and would like to find out more information as I'm not from the area. I'm curious about the areas for raising kids and overall quality of life. Cost of living is outrageous at both places for what I've heard, but if I can survive in LA, I should be okay up north, just curious what the differences are between the two schools and the two areas. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

[midnightfapper]

stanford hands down, the peninsula is much nicer than the east bay for raising a family. it's also far removed from negative elements, overall it's an extremely tranquil place. in many regards, it's similar to pacific palisades, the upscale parts of pasadena, etc. it has a more responsible, mature vibe, tons of well-educated and successful individuals abound. countless activities for children.

berzerkeley is pretty extreme to say the least, lived there for a while fairly close to campus (right above shattuck / gourmet ghetto). not reccomended... unless marx is your god, das kapital is your bible and you're on 587 mind altering drugs. it's likely a big shock, even coming from academia (the politics and people in los angeles are far more balanced/sane). the big pluses are that it's more urban in feel, closer to the city and can be more stimulating/exciting/entertaining. for example, people literally camping out in trees for years in an effort to prevent them from being cut down, protests about who knows what this week, etc.

the cost of living isn't really all that much more expensive. one plus about norcal is that people aren't as materialistic, so there's less pressure to lease a brand new, top-of-range mercedes every 12 months. it's a bit deceptive coming from los angeles, you can be in a very affluent area and it's not immediately obvious, people are far more low key. plus, the often-times higher salaries more than make up for any increased col.

[Larry Siegel]

Berkeley. You can live in the Berkeley or Oakland Hills, Albany, or "Lamorinda" (the countrified, affluent area east of the Caldecott tunnel) and be in central Berkeley in a few minutes and in SF a few minutes after that, if you drive at off hours. The COL is much lower than on the Peninsula and the quality of life is comparable. There are bad areas but you'll figure out how to avoid them. Stanford is far from the city and kind of a monoculture - pleasant but, by California standards, a little boring.

[ccm123]

Another vote for Stanford. Palo Alto and the immediate area, is by far, much more desirable than Berkeley. Although, the Berkeley Hills are very nice and affluent. Palo Alto is upscale and has low crime, while Berkeley is a crap shoot (good and so-so areas).

If you have never been to Palo Alto and coming from LA, you would think that the neighborhood in general resembles a middle-class suburb, but PA is very wealthy. It is understated compared with LA, which is always about surface materialism, new cars and appearances. (I lived in LA for 20+ years, so know it well.)

[Ruth4Truth]

Stanford. A higher-end community, much less crime, placid. Closer to the beach. Better schools. In Berkeley, you'd end up having to send your kids to private school for highschool, or all the way through, even.

On the other hand, the suggestion above re: living in Lafayette or Walnut Creek (both have great schools) and commuting in to Berkeley also isn't a bad idea, if you don't mind the commute. You could take BART, to make the commute less stressful.

[felinius]

Originally Posted by midnightfapper

the cost of living isn't really all that much more expensive.plus, the often-times higher salaries more than make up for any increased col.

I find that the COL is lower in Berkeley vs in Palo Alto, and a quick scan of CL shows that renting a 2+ bed is cheaper in Berkeley area versus Palo Alto. Fact of the matter is that the Peninsula will almost always be more expensive than the East Bay -- even the more 'shady' apartments in E. Palo Alto are going up, up, up in price. (e.g. Woodland Park 1beds are now averaging at $1600!!)

If you decide to work at Berkeley, you can live in Alameda. It's a nice town where you can get an apartment really close to the beach, and very family friendly.

[midnightfapper]

Originally Posted by felinius

I find that the COL is lower in Berkeley vs in Palo Alto, and a quick scan of CL shows that renting a 2+ bed is cheaper in Berkeley area versus Palo Alto. Fact of the matter is that the Peninsula will almost always be more expensive than the East Bay -- even the more 'shady' apartments in E. Palo Alto are going up, up, up in price. (e.g. Woodland Park 1beds are now averaging at $1600!!)

If you decide to work at Berkeley, you can live in Alameda. It's a nice town where you can get an apartment really close to the beach, and very family friendly.

yeah, berzerkeley definitely costs a bit less, however you really do get a lot of bang for your buck on the peninsula, especially in palo alto. one of the most beautiful places in the entire state, second only to big sur. in the end it's fairly decent value for money.

<3 alameda, nothing beats taking a long motorcycle ride along the water on a beautiful day. just watch out for the random stop signs

[ssmaster]

I vote Berkeley and living in lamorinda. It is affluent ,safe and the schools are superb. I do not think there is any difference in safety or quality of schools and when factoring what you can get for your money the housing stock is superior to Palo Alto on a square foot/$ basis.

[eastwestcoast]

As other posters have said, COL is somewhat lower in Berkeley than in Palo Alto, which is one of the most expensive cities in the country thanks to its proximity to Stanford and Silicon Valley money. Palo Alto's public school are top-notch, although some people complain about the extreme pressure kids are under at the local high schools to perform well and get into top colleges. This may or may not be something to consider... most students do fine and you know your children best. Although schools in Berkeley don't compare to Palo Alto, many nearby areas (Lamorinda for example) should be just fine.

Consider the geographic location of both places as well. Palo Alto is very suburban feeling, minus the business districts on University Ave and California Ave which serve as "downtowns" for the city, but tend to be extremely overpriced IMO. Many Peninsula cities north and south of Palo Alto have very similar characteristics, including pretty good school, at slightly lower prices. You could take Caltrain to Palo Alto and then use Stanford's free shuttle to get to campus if you lived somewhere like Mountain View, Sunnyvale, Redwood City, or San Carlos. Getting out of Peninsula is also more difficult than getting out of the Berkeley area. While living in Palo Alto and later Mountain View, I rarely took the trip to San Francisco, which looks closer on a map than it is in reality with Bay Area traffic. Berkeley is much more easily accessible to SF and is also closer to the Sierras and Tahoe, if that matters to you. However, Berkeley's "weirdness" is not for everyone, and you don't have a protective safety bubble separating you from higher-crime areas like Palo Alto does.

Is there any difference in the offers at either place? A position at either school will be a great opportunity, but I would say Stanford is probably more stable overall that Berkeley... it just has endless amounts of money whereas the UC system is sadly still suffering from the state's budget debacle.

[jade408]

Both would be good opportunities, but if walkable is a hot button for you, the Berkeley is a better fit. There are not many walkable communities near Palo Alto. Living in PA and the surrounding areas would also give your kids a much more sheltered upbringing. This also may or may not be important to you. There are significant cost of living differences.

Personally, the Peninsula is not my place for many reasons, but assuming you are paid well, you can perhaps have a pleasant life in either. Don't forget family sized homes in and around PA are about $1M and increasing. And we aren't talking amazing mansions.

Stanford does have a better endowment by far, but if you are talking a staff position it could be roughly comparable.