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It is written in there under Living in the Rental Unit, Paying the rent:
"If you can show proof that you maied the rent to the stated name and address (for example, a receipt for certified mail), the law assumes that the rent is receivable by the owner on the date of postmark".
This is really deceptive. They didn't include the entire section they were referring to. If you look at the footnote, it refers to this section of law:
California Civil Code Section 1962 (f):
(f) If the address provided by the owner does not allow for personal delivery, then it shall be conclusively presumed that upon the mailing of any rent or notice to the owner by the tenant to the name and address provided, the notice or rent is deemed receivable by the owner on the date posted, if the tenant can show proof of mailing to the name and address provided by the owner.
What this says is if their address is one that you can't personally deliver your rent to, then all you have to do is show proof that you mailed it. But, their address is not impossible for you to personally deliver the rent to. My understanding of an address not allowing for personal delivery, would be perhaps a post office box.
Obviously it's up to you if you want to take a chance on your interpretation of this law. But, I think it's been misinterpreted on the CA website. Scandalous, I know, but I think it's wrong.
I think if you do this, you will be able to show that you did mail the rent, which you could use in court to avoid an eviction for instance, but you won't be able to prove it was received on time, which wouldn't get you out of late fees.
Just my opinion, FWIW.
BTW, I also don't like the word "receivable." It does not say "received," but rather it says "receivable." I think this is significant, as well.
Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 02-06-2015 at 06:20 PM..
I found a lawyer answer regarding this section of law. He says the law means if the tenant can't personally deliver it to the address because there is no address or it's a private mailbox, etc.:
It is written in there under Living in the Rental Unit, Paying the rent:
"If you can show proof that you maied the rent to the stated name and address (for example, a receipt for certified mail), the law assumes that the rent is receivable by the owner on the date of postmark".
As a Landlord I would have issue with this... could be why I keep transitioning away from Residential to Commercial property.
Proof of mailing is just that... it is not proof of receipt... the IRS does not even accept Proof of Mailing per my CPA.
All proof of mailing does is show that an envelope with postage was posted to an address... return receipt shows it was received... not what is inside.
As mentioned some quasi public utilities districts do not accept post marks...
My only issue with this landlord is the amount of the late fee... I know that I would not be able to justify such a high amount if push came to shove.
I read through the CA tenant rights doc, and it did say the day the payment is post marked by the post office is considered the date of receipt. I will get next month's rent post marked at the post office. The landlord is on a power trip. The easiest thing would have been to set up a dedicated account for the rent. That way the bank shows when the deposit is made and no monthly bickering.
We love the neighborhood here, the schools are excellent. The little one starts kindergarten next year. We are beginning to feel settled and make friends. This is the only problem. We don't want to buy yet until we are sure this is where we want to be long term. I hate unnecessary conflicts, but I will fight if she pushes me to the wall.
Which brings up the other point raised... rent is expected to dramatically increase when current term expires... doesn't sound like a place I would want to bet on...
On a side note... I've been managing rentals for over 30 years and have yet to have anyone ask for an online method to tender rent... only once did someone ask if they could pay with bitcoin and I gave them my confused look asking why they would want to pay in quarters... i.e. two bits.
I found a lawyer answer regarding this section of law. He says the law means if the tenant can't personally deliver it to the address because there is no address or it's a private mailbox, etc.:
I'm just trying to help you be sure you don't have to pay any more late fees.
Thank you for "obsessing" over it . It has helped me tremendously.
The lease agreement has N/A in the section where it states to personally deliver the payment. Since, personal delivery is not an option, it is then safe to say that the only option available to me was to mail the check prior to the 5th of the month. Late fee is assessed after the 5th.
This February payment, I mailed by dropping it in the mailbox. But, as the universe seems to be on my side this month, the LL just emailed me acknowledging receiving the check today. She even took a picture of the check and the envelope to show the post marked date. She then said she would be assessing late fee. However, the picture she sent to me not only acknowledges rent payment receipt, but the post marked date. This essentially acts as my proof of timely mailing of the check.
So, I wrote her back that she cannot legally charge me a late payment! She made my point for me!
Thank you for "obsessing" over it . It has helped me tremendously.
The lease agreement has N/A in the section where it states to personally deliver the payment. Since, personal delivery is not an option, it is then safe to say that the only option available to me was to mail the check prior to the 5th of the month. Late fee is assessed after the 5th.
This February payment, I mailed by dropping it in the mailbox. But, as the universe seems to be on my side this month, the LL just emailed me acknowledging receiving the check today. She even took a picture of the check and the envelope to show the post marked date. She then said she would be assessing late fee. However, the picture she sent to me not only acknowledges rent payment receipt, but the post marked date. This essentially acts as my proof of timely mailing of the check.
So, I wrote her back that she cannot legally charge me a late payment! She made my point for me!
OP, you seem confused here. I think we've found the crux of the matter. Firstly, the 5th of the month is the end of the grace period, not the date rent is due. Rent is due on the 1st. Secondly, the deadline is not a "mail by" date. It's a "receive by" date. There's a big difference there, possibly as much as 7 days, especially if you're using registered mail.
Your check should be in the LL's mailbox by the 1st. You should time your mailing accordingly. This doesn't mean mail your check on the 29th. It means don't take efficient mail for granted, and mail close to a week in advance of the "receive by" date. If there's some sort of snafu with the mail, that's what the grace period is for. But don't push your luck; don't take that grace period for granted. Your rent is due on the 1st of each month. Take the deadline seriously. Your delivery confirmation (in the future) should say: March 1, April 1, etc. If the due date falls on a Sunday, the check should arrive the day before. No wonder you've been getting late charges.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 02-06-2015 at 11:17 PM..
OP, you seem confused here. I think we've found the crux of the issue. Firstly, the 5th of the month is the end of the grace period, not the date rent is due. Rent is due on the 1st. Secondly, the deadline is not a "mail by" date. It's a "receive by" date. There's a big difference there, possibly as much as 7 days, especially if you're using registered mail.
Your check should be in the LL's mailbox by the 1st. You should time your mailing accordingly. This doesn't mean mail your check on the 29th. It means don't take efficient mail for granted, and mail close to a week in advance of the "receive by" date. If there's some sort of snafu with the mail, that's what the grace period is for. But don't push your luck; don't take that grace period for granted. Your rent is due on the 1st of each month. Take the deadline seriously.
I am not confused at all. But thanks for your concern .
She is using an archaic process of collecting rent. Everyone knows that USPS is unreliable. There are many times I have received my neighbors mail and vice versa. If she wants her rent by the first of the month, then she should provide a better alternative. Plenty available.
I am not confused at all. But thanks for your concern .
She is using an archaic process of collecting rent. Everyone knows that USPS is unreliable. There are many times I have received my neighbors mail and vice versa. If she wants her rent by the first of the month, then she should provide a better alternative. Plenty available.
This is such an interesting issue. A lot of LL's still want their payment by USPS. I was first in line to look at a rental a few years ago, but when I told the property mgmt rep that my bank could make a direct deposit to the company's bank, for convenience and promptness, she freaked! She thought that was too weird, and downright suspicious! (She was unaware that banks have a bill-payer function for clients, for one thing.) She started saying she had to be careful because "there's a lot of fraud out there". She used the "fraud" word several times after that. And she didn't want to give out any company bank acc't info. I didn't get the rental, because of that. Also, she didn't seem comfortable renting to a single, which was weird (and discriminatory).
A LOT of individual LL's and prop'ty mgmt companies still take payment by mail, and many prefer it or offer no alternative.
Thank you for "obsessing" over it . It has helped me tremendously.
The lease agreement has N/A in the section where it states to personally deliver the payment. Since, personal delivery is not an option, it is then safe to say that the only option available to me was to mail the check prior to the 5th of the month. Late fee is assessed after the 5th.
This February payment, I mailed by dropping it in the mailbox. But, as the universe seems to be on my side this month, the LL just emailed me acknowledging receiving the check today. She even took a picture of the check and the envelope to show the post marked date. She then said she would be assessing late fee. However, the picture she sent to me not only acknowledges rent payment receipt, but the post marked date. This essentially acts as my proof of timely mailing of the check.
So, I wrote her back that she cannot legally charge me a late payment! She made my point for me!
Maybe the email will work. You can cut and paste that law and tell her the lease has N/A for personal delivery, therefore you believe that your postmark should be considered to be the date she "received" it.
I'm not convinced this would work in court, though. It's that pesky word "receivable" that's bothering me. My thinking is a judge would want the postmark to show a date that would give the check plenty of time to get to the landlord by the 5th.
OTOH, I don't think the LL could say you had to mail a check prior to the 1st. Many people have to wait until the 1st to get paid, and this is where the personal delivery option comes into play, in my opinion, and why the other option is there if personal delivery is not an option.
So, did you postmark it on the 1st? If so, I think a judge would be on your side, too, since the LL put N/A for personal delivery of rent.
If not, go with the bluff by using the word "received" instead of mentioning that the word is actually "receivable."
So, this should take care of Feb, but do you really want to go through this again? Just send the rent priority mail with delivery confirmation on the 1st of every month. You won't have to argue with any judge or lawyer what the word "receivable" means. You will just be able to prove the rent got there by the 5th.
My rents are due on the First of each month... if the check arrives on the Second it is late...
However, my late fee of $25 does not kick in unless payment arrives after the Fifth of the month and in reality on my own rentals... I rarely assess a late fee.
Archaic or not... it seems it was clearly spelled out in the rental agreement...
I never sign anything I do not agree with... sometimes this causes problems... sometimes I simply cross out and initial what I do not agree with...
Did this with a Section 8 rental in Pittsburg CA years ago... there was an issue a few years later and I reminded Housing that I did not agree to that provision and it set off a fire storm... they said I had no right to change a contract... my reply is I have every right not to agree and if it was an issue... the application for lease should have been denied... It proved Housing does not read their own contracts...
My experience comes from decades of being a California Certified Arbitrator for Consumer Issues...
To be safe... I would mail the check at least 3 days before the First and only do so at the Post Office...
Seems like it would be a lot less problem all around and cheaper than having to pay for extra postal services.
Good Luck and I hope it does work out since the home is located in an ideal neighborhood with excellent schools for your youngster.
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. It has helped me tremendously. 
